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ilike2hunt
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Posted: 14 August 2008 07:04 PM |
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Not the best pic, but does it look like the primers are getting flat? These are 40gn Vmax, WIN brass, WLR primers and Varget. The top 3 are 36.9gn, middle are 37.4gn, and last are 37.9gn with one unfired.
Last edited on 14 August 2008 07:05 PM by ilike2hunt
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ramon
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Posted: 14 August 2008 08:51 PM |
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None of your fired primers look 'flat'. There's no overt cratering or flowing. The center 3 with primers middle and right look to exhibit the most pressure, if indeed that's what we're seeing. All in all, they all look to be normal in a normal range.
Ramon
Last edited on 14 August 2008 08:54 PM by ramon
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3006 user
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Posted: 14 August 2008 09:04 PM |
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I wouldn't think that they are flattened to the point of backing off, but the one in the lower right might be a stopping point.
The outer edges of the primers still have a good radius.
Try a few more with your top charge of 37.9, weighing each, and judge from there.
Like Ramon says--Normal..
I once heard that reading primers is like reading chicken entrails at a Voodoo party, but without pressure equipment, reading primers and judging extraction effort are about the only things we, as average handloaders have to go by....
I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.
Last edited on 14 August 2008 09:06 PM by 3006 user
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ilike2hunt
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Posted: 14 August 2008 09:10 PM |
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Thanks...I was hoping I was still ok since the 37.9 charge was giving a .252 group.
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miestro_jerry
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Posted: 14 August 2008 10:40 PM |
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They look actually like good pressure from the cartridge. If they would be flat there would be no "crown" around the primer.
Jerry
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SCSlim
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Posted: 14 August 2008 11:05 PM |
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| They look OK to me. I'd have to agree that the one on the bottom right is the only one I see that might show a hint of flattening. I've fired some primer-flattening loads, mostly in magnum handgun calibers and have to say that none of those .22-250s shown looks flattened, at least to my eye.
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nksmfamjp
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Posted: 15 August 2008 12:51 AM |
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Yea, the bottom ones look like they are just in the sweet spot. I would be fine with that based on primer reading.
The next step for me is velocity validation to see if your velocities are consistent. Also, usually if your pressure is high, you won't get your best accuracy.
Last edited on 15 August 2008 12:56 AM by nksmfamjp
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miestro_jerry
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Posted: 15 August 2008 12:59 AM |
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Accuracy is really the issue. If your bullet/rifle combination is not right, too fast or too slow, you may not be keeping tight groups and probably are not having the best accuracy.
Jerry
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guntech59
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Posted: 15 August 2008 02:53 AM |
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This is a flattened primer! Loaded for winter varmint hunting and accidently used in my rifle league shoot at 80 degrees. The load was tested in temps around 0-10 degrees. BIG difference in pressure, ya think?
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The_Mountaineer
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Posted: 15 August 2008 02:05 PM |
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Great post fellas! The pics really help.
Couldn't agree with you more.
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72coupe
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Posted: 15 August 2008 02:18 PM |
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Is it just the perspective of the camera or is there a raised lip around the firing pin indentation?
It looks like your firing pin hole may be to large.
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saddlesore
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Posted: 15 August 2008 02:52 PM |
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| When you start to see bolt face machine marks on the face of the primer and start to get cratering is when you know you are aproaching unsafe pressures. Indeed these may be indicators of other problesm, but it is still a good indicator of unsafe loads
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ilike2hunt
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Posted: 16 August 2008 09:12 PM |
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72coupe, It's a little of both. This gun has always made a lip randomly and with absolutely no consistencey. Sometimes it does it, sometimes it doesnt...this includes factory ammo and low power loads...as a matter of fact, out of 20 shots, I may get 1-3 that do this, or none at all...handloads or factory. This particular gun (Savage model 10) has been a tack driver out of the box, so I have just let it be.
To be more precise, the top right pic is the only one that actually has a lip.
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ghrit
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Posted: 16 August 2008 09:49 PM |
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What struck me is that the indentations are not all centered, and are at various distances off center. Also looks like there is a bit of a lip on the side away from the off center hit. If true (my eyes often deceive me) then the firing pin hole in the bolt is worn, and I'd bet that it is worn in all directions, not just one that pushes the pin in only one direction. Dunno if this is bad, or indifferent, but worth a look at.
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72coupe
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Posted: 16 August 2008 10:10 PM |
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Since it is a Savage, it is a simple matter to replace the bolt head. If it were something else you would have to bore then put a bushing in it.
I have had over size firing pin holes in AR15 bolts with some nasty side effects.
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Timberghozt
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Posted: 16 August 2008 11:48 PM |
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The above photoed primers look plenty ok to me.That flattened primer. I wouldn`t freak out about,..if you see that primer showing signs of distortion in the firing pin crater,back it off.My Savage Model 10 Tactical in 308 Win flattens primers under my accuracy load with 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips flattens primers with 46 grains of Varget,but it squeezes em in under a dime at 100.Flattened primers are what I consider the telltale sign to ease off any more increases in charge increments.I dont take a load that far usually,I stop when I get the accuracy I am after,or I change powders and start
over till I find what the rifle will eat and give accuracy.
You are ok with your load.
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ilike2hunt
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Posted: 18 August 2008 09:58 PM |
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ghrit, after reading your post I looked at them all...they all appear to be struck in the same spot, so i think the lighting and fact they are not all lined up the same may be what is throwing you off. As for replacing the bolt head...I think I will hold off as long as its not causing me issues since it has only had 500 rounds or so through it, and this is the hottest load so far.....maybe if it wasnt such a great shooter I would be less hesitant to change parts.
Thanks for all the input, its much appreciated.
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Paul Tummers
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Posted: 18 August 2008 10:16 PM |
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I would not make an issue out of it with these primer signs, Think the pressure will be well below max.
As for the picture of Guntech59; the primers of fired cases from my .222Rem. look exaxtly the same with a load wich is well below max.
I recently saw some fired cases in cal.222Rem. magn., factory ammo from Hirtenberg Patronenfabrik, were it was difficult to see were the case bottom started and the primer began; all flat, no groove visible.
This was brand new ammo, nothing old having been in the glove compartment of a car at high temperatures or so.
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