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7mmdrops-em
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 23 December 2007 |
| Location: | Milton, West Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 36 |
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Posted: 16 October 2008 10:48 PM |
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This was interesting and I have never seen anything like it.
First the Cases in question are R-P once fire (by me) 7mm Rem Mag Brass.
They are not the same lot but were 175gr bullets.
All the brass tumbled, de-capped, sized (not full length) and trimmed.
A random sample showed they were in specs but I did not check then all other than case length.
These rounds were loaded in groups of 5 with alternating primers (CCI200 then CCI250) every 5 and powder weight every 10. There was no order to the bad cases in the box and several rows had none and others had 2-3.
Well I went to the range with the 50 rounds and had some not chamber.
I returned home and check all that did not chamber and found the following:
11 out of 50 were outside the specs as follows:
8 had a diameter just below the shoulder greater then .492 (book specs) and were from .4935 - .501 and they would not chamber. I found 2 others that had a dia. of .493 (un-fired) and they chambered.
3 had a diameter just above the belt greater than .513 (book specs) and they would not chamber and they ranged from .5135 - .514 at the base.
I have loaded for years and never had anything like this and this is the first time I have loaded 7MM Rem Mag. I have and other cases oversize and need full length resize to bring them to specs.
Any Ideas why the randomness?
I have about 200 cases mixed lot that are ready to load and I am going to go through them and check the specs and will let you know!
Rod
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72coupe
Handloading Master
| Joined: | 11 June 2006 |
| Location: | Iowa Park, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1546 |
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Posted: 17 October 2008 12:51 AM |
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Sounds like your bullet seater is crushing the shoulder when you seat and crimp. Trim them all to the same length then readjust you seater.
You will probably need to full length size all your case for the next loading.
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Reloader since 1969.
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Timberghozt
Board Founder
| Joined: | 11 February 2005 |
| Location: | Salado, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 5389 |
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Posted: 17 October 2008 02:00 AM |
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I am thinking along the same lines.Check your shoulder bump..
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"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
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7mmdrops-em
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 23 December 2007 |
| Location: | Milton, West Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 36 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 17 October 2008 02:02 AM |
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All cases were trimmed to the same length and was verified before loading. After I pulled the bullets I find the Case length is 2.495 on the "bad" cases and the maxium is 2.500.
Checking some of the fired cases they are 2.496.
I have checked the seater die and it is clean free.
A check of 100 of the odd lot of cases I have ready indicated I have 9 that I feel are out of Specs as the base indicating full length sizing are needed.
The necks are well in spec on the cases.
I think I will run several of the preped cases through the seater and see what happens. I have a few odd bullets (all the same) and seat them and see again the results.
Rod
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Innovative
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 22 March 2008 |
| Location: | Casselberry, Florida USA |
| Posts: | 19 |
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Posted: 17 October 2008 04:47 PM |
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Rod,
Read my website, and you'll understand exactly what's causing your problem. I ran into the same thing about 8 years ago. When the major die manufacturers had no interest in solving this problem (due to expensive R&D), I built a better die for belted magnum calibers. So far, I've sold almost 2,500 of these dies, and only had one of them returned. However, I just have a few left.
_ Innovative
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Our website at http://www.larrywillis.com is devoted to helping shooters make the best handloads possible.
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CRYPTOCHIEF
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 15 October 2008 |
| Location: | Toms Brook, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 6 |
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Posted: 19 October 2008 12:40 AM |
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Innovative,
Did you find you were loading for a tight chamber or were the "belts" on the cases of varying dimentions?
CC
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Innovative
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 22 March 2008 |
| Location: | Casselberry, Florida USA |
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Posted: 19 October 2008 01:20 AM |
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It doesn't matter if it's a tight chamber or not, and the belt diameter never varies. The problem area is "just above the belt". A new case starts off at .507" and repeated reloadings bulge cases out to as much as .516" (depending on your particular chamber vs. your conventional resizing die).
The thing that surprises most reloaders, is that this part of the case bulges after 2 or 3 reloadings. Most of the time this is what causes belted cases to "fail to chamber" . . . . . even in the same rifle. This is mainly due to the downward pressure when reloading, and the way the brass springs back.
- Innovative
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Hawk Driver
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 15 September 2006 |
| Location: | Alabama USA |
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Posted: 19 October 2008 01:29 AM |
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| I have one of these dies, it friggin works.
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CRYPTOCHIEF
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 15 October 2008 |
| Location: | Toms Brook, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 6 |
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Posted: 20 October 2008 12:34 AM |
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Innovative,
I bet that was the problem I ran into some time back loading for 264 Win Mag. Couldn't figure out what was wrong. Cases were trimmed and full length sized. never thought to do some caliper measurements on case dimensions. Thanks for the info.
CC
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"If you can't shoot straight, don't give up. There's always someone who can."
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7mmdrops-em
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 23 December 2007 |
| Location: | Milton, West Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 36 |
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Posted: 20 October 2008 01:23 AM |
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Yes I had a few with the case expanded above the belt. That problem I know the cause and fix. My problem was at the shoulder of the case. It was as if the case had been crushed and expanded at the shoulder. If you lay a straight edge from just above the belt to the top of the case it had a gap near the shoulder of .1500 - .2500”.
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Innovative
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 22 March 2008 |
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| Posts: | 19 |
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Posted: 20 October 2008 02:01 AM |
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7mmdrops-em ..............
I think you meant to say that your cases expanded above the belt (not above the shoulder). You're right about the straight edge showing the bulge. However, it's best to measure this area with calipers.
- Innovative
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Our website at http://www.larrywillis.com is devoted to helping shooters make the best handloads possible.
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wheezengeezer
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 16 July 2007 |
| Location: | Jeddediah Jones Swamp, Kansas USA |
| Posts: | 708 |
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Posted: 21 October 2008 11:41 AM |
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| CALIPERS. dont reload without them!! they tell you a lot more than what meets the eye.
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I was raised in the 50's on gunpowder and jackrabbits.salt and pepper wooda made'em taste better
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