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d45/70
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| Joined: | 29 October 2008 |
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Posted: 30 October 2008 03:14 AM |
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Here goes; Some of you know I shot a 1895 cowboy marlin with a 26" barrel. I load it fairly hot.
This is the load
Hodgens-H4198--58 gr. Max is 60gr
Hornidy .458 #4500 300gr hp
210 cci primer
Federal cases
It averages 2450 fps (2430 to 2475)
Any way I'm getting burned because the load calls for win cases. There telling me that there is NO way that load can go that fast and not blow the action up. I have shot 1000"s of this load over 5 years and no problem. I have tried 59 and 60 gr but the cases stick and the primer gets flattened. At 58 gr no signs of over presser show.
The Published speed is 2325 ( I think ) I think I'm getting the extra from the 2" extra barrel and I put a Very GOOD crimp on it.
What do you think? Am I just playing with fire ?? Sending someone else to the hospital ??
Attachment: 4570-1a.jpg (Downloaded 96 times) Last edited on 30 October 2008 03:20 AM by d45/70
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wheezengeezer
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| Joined: | 16 July 2007 |
| Location: | Jeddediah Jones Swamp, Kansas USA |
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Posted: 30 October 2008 12:51 PM |
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| it is obviously a load that works and is safe in your rifle.kinda like the load data we had to work with years ago.just because it was safe in their rifle didnt mean it wasnt over the pressure limit.is the max load for the 1895 or the ruger and bolt actions?
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3006 user
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| Joined: | 30 July 2007 |
| Location: | Denver Area, Colorado USA |
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Posted: 30 October 2008 02:23 PM |
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d45/70 wrote: Here goes; Some of you know I shot a 1895 cowboy marlin with a 26" barrel. I load it fairly hot.
This is the load
Hodgens-H4198--58 gr. Max is 60gr
Hornidy .458 #4500 300gr hp
210 cci primer
Federal cases
d45/70, just curious, but going back in loading manuals-- original Sierra, Lyman 46, Hodgdon 25, and I can't see that high of a load. I admit that I don't have a Hornady manual.... Lyman 49 goes as high as 55gr 4198, compressed in Remington cases. They specify Ruger #1 or #3 only.
When I had my 1974 version of the Marlin 45/70, my top load was: 300gr Hornady w/59gr 4895, rated at close to 2000fps. I couldn't wait to put a recoil pad on it..
Very accurate, though..
Last edited on 30 October 2008 02:26 PM by 3006 user
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d45/70
HB Full Member
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Posted: 30 October 2008 03:24 PM |
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wheezengeezer wrote: it is obviously a load that works and is safe in your rifle.kinda like the load data we had to work with years ago.just because it was safe in their rifle didn't mean it wasn't over the pressure limit.is the max load for the 1895 or the ruger and bolt actions?
The max load for the 1895 Marlin! I'm looking for my manual as we speak but is is a fairly new publication. I don't remember who published it But I do remember seeing it at all the Gun shops. They have a bunch of little paper books for all the different calibers. This is one for the 45/70 only and it has all the powder's and bullet makers listed. I'll try to find the manual . Through the years I have put it some place where I can't not see it , ya right!
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d45/70
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 29 October 2008 |
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Posted: 30 October 2008 03:30 PM |
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3006 user wrote:
d45/70, just curious, but going back in loading manuals-- original Sierra, Lyman 46, Hodgdon 25, and I can't see that high of a load. I admit that I don't have a Hornady manual.... Lyman 49 goes as high as 55gr 4198, compressed in Remington cases. They specify Ruger #1 or #3 only.
When I had my 1974 version of the Marlin 45/70, my top load was: 300gr Hornady w/59gr 4895, rated at close to 2000fps. I couldn't wait to put a recoil pad on it..
Very accurate, though..
This load will shoot a 3" group at 200 yards
The powder does touch the bullet and the 60gr is compressed a lot.
Isn't there two very different types of 4198? Hodgdon and another brand ???
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300 SAUM
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| Joined: | 11 February 2005 |
| Location: | Ossineke, Michigan USA |
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Posted: 31 October 2008 01:44 AM |
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d45/70 wrote: 3006 user wrote:
d45/70, just curious, but going back in loading manuals-- original Sierra, Lyman 46, Hodgdon 25, and I can't see that high of a load. I admit that I don't have a Hornady manual.... Lyman 49 goes as high as 55gr 4198, compressed in Remington cases. They specify Ruger #1 or #3 only.
When I had my 1974 version of the Marlin 45/70, my top load was: 300gr Hornady w/59gr 4895, rated at close to 2000fps. I couldn't wait to put a recoil pad on it..
Very accurate, though..
This load will shoot a 3" group at 200 yards
The powder does touch the bullet and the 60gr is compressed a lot.
Isn't there two very different types of 4198? Hodgdon and another brand ???
That would be: IMR 4198
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klallen
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| Joined: | 10 February 2005 |
| Location: | Great Falls, Montana USA |
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Posted: 31 October 2008 03:20 AM |
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did a quick looksee and the max h4198 load in my hornady manual with a 300 gr. bullet tops out around 51 grs. a smidge over. with velocities in the 2100 fps range. this is their max load advised for 1895's and other mid strength actions of the ilk. i don't necessarily know if you're pushing the cartridge. probably not, as i've seen it loaded to some pretty nice top end performances but ONLY in rock solid ruger #1 type actions. i do think you're probably pushing the 1895 action. if you're breaking 2400 fps (and doing so by a good margin) i would be half willing to bet you're well over 40K cup, kinda the generally agreed top end pressure for the action. no way to know for sure without the equipment to measure. specially when you consider this and then look at the hodgdon data that you're following and it tells a totally different story.
i'm not one to shy away from loading things on the hot side but ya always have to toe the line when you're dealing with actions that aren't designed for such things. if you're confident with the load and moreso comfortable with your own safety, i'd probably not change anything. but i do see where the marlinowners fellers are coming from if all they've dealt with is hornady data. i can see where you'd be blowing their doors off posting the numbers that you're achieving.
stay safe. korey
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Timberghozt
Board Founder
| Joined: | 11 February 2005 |
| Location: | Salado, Texas USA |
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Posted: 31 October 2008 06:38 PM |
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I load that exact same bullet at a mere smidgen above book max...Never had a problem with it..Looks like it could handle more but being a lever gun I try to take it easy on my rifle.It groups 1.5 inches at 100 yards,minute of boar hogs
d 45/70..If youre getting flamed,tell em to piss up a rope.Unless you`ve blew a case in the rifle of tore the action up from a hot load..It aint too hot..Its your rifle load it how ya want bud
I like to see peak performance as well and I will push the limits on occasion if I see a potential for accuracy increasements,,but usually with a bolt action
drive on fellow big bore fan..
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runfiverun
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| Joined: | 9 February 2008 |
| Location: | Soda Springs, Idaho USA |
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Posted: 1 November 2008 12:24 AM |
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i ain't got no problem with what you shoot in your rifle.
just you gotta be careful as your next pound of powder might be a bit faster.
then you go from 40k to 45+ real quick.
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CapnMidnight
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| Joined: | 5 September 2008 |
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Posted: 2 November 2008 06:15 AM |
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I've been shooting 59grs H4895 under a Hornady 350gr RNFP for 6 years in my Marlin 1895 Cowboy with no problems at all, so I have no problem with your 300gr load.
W.D.
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bea175
Board Founder
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Posted: 2 November 2008 03:12 PM |
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| The load you list for your 45-70 is just barley over max and if your rifle shows no pressure you should or will be fine using this load . Hod manual list 53.7 starting and 57.2 as max with the Sierra 300 gr HP. and IMR 4198. I personal don't believe you gain enough with the lever gun in 45-70 to go over max loads in the manual. Even if your rifle shows no pressure the action mechanism is still taking a beating for almost no real gain. The 45-70 is a great round even when you run it throttled back because most big game just can't tell the difference. Your rifle so use it the way you like and forget about everyone else opinion.
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Charley
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| Joined: | 9 September 2005 |
| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
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Posted: 3 November 2008 02:59 AM |
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Your rifle, your call. Some don't seem to understand that a loadthat blows primers in one rifle is well within limits for another. There is no set limit that applies to every situation.
That said, I load very little to max or above. Safe enough, if done properly, but I find it a huge PITA to work up again for different lots of powder or bullets.
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