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64Impala
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| Joined: | 11 January 2008 |
| Location: | Brooklyn, Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 37 |
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Posted: 31 October 2008 07:44 PM |
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Hi Guys -
If I can get thru my extensive honey-do list, I think I'm going to load up some REAL rounds this weekend. I was going to make batches of 10-15 using different powder weights (using .5 gr increments) up to about 24.7 grains, starting at 22.7. Max for my bullet weight and powder is 25.3, so I'm still below my max.
I'm shooting iron sites on my AR and was wondering if 50 yards is a long enough distance to test accuracy between the loads. If anyone has any good tips on how to help take the "shooter" out of the accuracy equation, that would be helpful also. I don't have one of those fancy bench rests. I'm pretty much broke after buying all this reloading equipment. 
Thanks!
Joe
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Timberghozt
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| Joined: | 11 February 2005 |
| Location: | Salado, Texas USA |
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Posted: 1 November 2008 02:32 AM |
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nope....most accuracy fundamentals are based on a 100 yard shot
50 yards is a bit close,even for iron sights on a AR for a good representation..
then again,it is iron sights
for optics,100 yards..
For iron sights..I honestly dont know
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saddlesore
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 6 February 2005 |
| Location: | Colorado Springs, Colorado USA |
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Posted: 1 November 2008 02:35 PM |
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| I doubt you will get any real info from50 yds.I always go back to the old standard of comparing national macth rifles. A natiional match garand was 3" at 100 yds I belive.Good ones would do better.
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Oddbod
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| Joined: | 20 January 2008 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
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Posted: 2 November 2008 04:15 PM |
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Five rounds at each powder load should be enough to gauge the accuracy potential & it'll save you $ too.
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runfiverun
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| Joined: | 9 February 2008 |
| Location: | Soda Springs, Idaho USA |
| Posts: | 73 |
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Posted: 2 November 2008 08:15 PM |
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i shoot at the distance i am going to use the rifle/pistol for.
but 100 yds is a standard i have had many loads that were "one holers" at 50
be all over the map at 100. even 75-80 will tell you more than 50.
but there isn't any reason why a good rifle with open sights and a good load
can't be accurate at 200 or more.
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ar10
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| Joined: | 1 November 2008 |
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Posted: 3 November 2008 12:55 AM |
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I'm guessing you're shooting an ar15 type rifle. If you are I think there's a formula you can use as well as a target specifically for sighting in at 70'. I don't shoot one but a lot of shooters come out to the range to sight in their ar's before they move to the longer ranges.
If you're just testing your loads I've done 150' targets from the bench and lead sled. Then moved to the 100, 200 and 300 yd range. Mine is iron also, I found that once I have the rear/front sights in the same position at the 150' range it's a little easier getting the sight picture at the longer ranges.
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64Impala
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 11 January 2008 |
| Location: | Brooklyn, Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 37 |
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Posted: 3 November 2008 01:33 PM |
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Thanks guys -
Its not that I can't hit at 100 yards with irons, I'm just to lazy to walk down there to look
A couple of weekends ago I was ringing 3/4 scale steel silouettes at 300 yards with my irons. Somebody in my class said shooting 3/4 scale at 300 was the equivalent of shooting full scale at 500. Don't know if thats true of not, but it sounds good.
Maybe I can find a cheapo 3x-4x scope to drop on this thing just for testing. I can hit with irons, but I KNOW I'm more accurate with an optic.
Joe
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nksmfamjp
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| Joined: | 29 June 2008 |
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Posted: 22 December 2008 02:13 AM |
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So, I like the person who said to test accuracy at the range you care about. . .
In addition, if shooting with irons at 100 yards is hard to aim at an exact bullseye, it might be better to shoot at 50 yards.
Last, for an iron sighted gun, I would suggest it doesn't take more than 3-5 powder charges per bullet weight to get your best groups. With a 36x scope, it might be nice to go a bit finer.
Last, you might want to try shooting a couple of different bullets at a non-maximum loads to get an idea which bullet might be best. Bullet selection will have the biggest impact.
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miestro_jerry
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| Joined: | 28 June 2008 |
| Location: | Somerton (AKA BFE), Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 773 |
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Posted: 22 December 2008 02:59 AM |
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To judge your loads and their accuracy, find a politician or a bank CEO and tell them to run. That will give you areal world idea of the accuracy of your loads.
Jerry
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ar10
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 1 November 2008 |
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Posted: 22 December 2008 04:05 AM |
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About a month ago I ran 3 powders, AA1680, H322, and RL 7, going from minimum to just under max loads. I was using a single bullet, Sierra 2205. .311, WLR primers, and reclaimed brass from the range I work at, all cases were Winchester. The rifle was my CZ-527 7.62x39mm American Carbine with an inexpensive 8x scope. I could see my shots very well with the scope at the 100yd mark, The 200 and 300 I couldn't
I also shoot an AR 10B than can't have a scope mount because of the charging trigger. I shoot it all the time at 300yds using bipod, in prone, sitting, and bench. I can't see the target hit so I shoot 5 shot groups a various diamonds on the target then walk up to see where I hit. (all the bullets are hanloads using 40.3gn Varget, and WLR primers). The 1" dia diamonds are completely covered by front sight and my shot groups may be off, however, the groups are about 1~2" and I'm happy. What most shooters don't consider is their various AR's, FN's and all the makes, are battle rifles. They are not designed to be anything more than that.
The moral is shoot your gun with what you have. Iron sights are great. And with practice you will be just as good of shooter as all those shooters with a zillion doo-dads stuck on their rifles. That doesn't make a good shooter.
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miestro_jerry
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 28 June 2008 |
| Location: | Somerton (AKA BFE), Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 773 |
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Posted: 22 December 2008 04:42 AM |
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To me, it is hitting the intended target. I have an M1A that is tricked out for match shooting, but I have several other rifles that I enjoy for many different things. I really like my Marlin lever guns, great for g'hogs and 'yotes, I have an old Spanish FR8 that is a fun rifle to shoot about any old 308 Win rounds thru it.
Accuracy is a matter of opinion as well as a matter of what your shooting at. If I were to take my 30-30 out bear hunting, I would probably have to tree the bear and put a lot of rounds into him. But if I take my 300 RUM out, probably 1 to 2 shots at 50 meters will do the bear in.
Paper punching is a different story, you need to punch a hole thru a piece of paper at 100 or more meters, paper won't eat you or shoot back. I have a Contender Carbine 223 and it is really great for varmit shooting out to 200 or so meters, that is where my skills tend to fall off these days. That carbine is a single shot with a scope that is about as long as the barrel.
At 50 meters, it is hit the target, if I am on my range in the backyard, no big deal, but I shoot for fun sometimes, like a 2 liter pop bottle full of water, or 5 or 6 thick phone books bundled together.
With my pistols, I keep to a basic regiment of close quarter combat, or 50 yards on my range.
With my muzzle loaders, I try to do 50 and 100 meters with them. They are good for hunting in my area, I have seen a traditional cap lock do a 300 meter bullseye, that is darn nice shooting. I haven't been able to do that yet with my cap lock and don't expect to do that with my inline.
But start loading in half grain increases from what the books may say is the minimum and work your way up the 90% of the max load. Max loads can put you into some dangerous pressures that your gun may not like.
A while back when I lived near Powell Ohio, the owner of the rifle range could do bullseyes with his mildly customized 1911a, and used minimal amount of bullseye powder and soft lead tumble lubed bullets.
So accuracy and loading for accuracy is a matter of trial error, and your skills with your rifle.
Jerry
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6.5.shooter
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 16 December 2008 |
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Posted: 22 December 2008 02:21 PM |
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+1 Jerry
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LilMag
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Posted: 27 December 2008 10:40 PM |
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64 Impala......They made great stock cars in the 60's and early 70's! OK, you have got to read a lot of posts about this and that etc. I will tell you to start off at the bench shooting 3 shots at 25 yards, this will let you be able to use the iron sights and see without a spotting scope, where your hitting OK.
Now after you selected the top three groups shot at 25 yds, you must go out to 100 yds and once again shoot 3 shot groups with each separate group you loaded up prior. You might get buy with a pair of 10 power Bino's if you use white butcher paper for your overall target. It will save you some leg work possibly.
Once you have shot your session of the 3 best groups and picked the tightest group from the bunch you handloaded, then set up and do so once again just to make sure you didn't get lucky with one of those shot groups.
Once you picked out your BEST group at 100 yards, then it is time to move out to 150 or 200 yards and so on to your MAX distance OK. Remember wind will likely play apart of your shot groups if it is over 10mph. You will need at least 9 shots reloaded for each separate group your going to shoot but I would load up 10 because you will no doubt have a pulled shot or flyer perhaps. Good Shooting!
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miestro_jerry
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 28 June 2008 |
| Location: | Somerton (AKA BFE), Ohio USA |
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Posted: 28 December 2008 12:20 AM |
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I remember a few years ago, a guy at a public rifle range who took extreme pride in the fact that his TVA Surplus M1 Carbine could keep quarter size group at 15 feet. If that made him happy that is really great.
Most of the time, I think people should start close and move out, but also look at what your intended targets will be, for paper punching or hunting or some plinking fun. Then don't ask your rifle to do more than it's capable of. Such as a SMLE Jungle Carbine from WW II, in it's day is was a decent rifle, it had the problem of the zeroing of the barrel would move. Would I want to a 500 yard sgot with rifle, no.
Keep on shooting!
Jerry
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