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lefty404
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Posted: 20 November 2008 12:32 PM |
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| Hello there my reloading compadres, This is lefty with a question on Nosler brass. I'll just keep this question in context of .223 brass. I just purchased another 50 count box of .223 brass and checked there over all length on all 50. My question is based on the fact that noslers brass measures shorter than the suggested trim to length which is stated in the RCBS and Lyman trim to length charts. And in other reloading guides. The trim to length specs are 1.750. The box I just recieved and rounds I have already loaded are 1.732 and 1.733 which is awesome in the fact that nosler brass comes ready to load. I use Nosler brass for my 22-250 also and I know that comes shorter than trim to length specs. This is just a guess but are there some shooters out there like say ths AR-15 etc. I know that .018 and .017 is not very much but was just wondering why Nosler does this. The accuracy out of my .223 and 22-250 are both under an inch at 100 yards. I'm just curious why the shorter case length. Any ideas out there ???????????????????? Lefty Last edited on 20 November 2008 12:33 PM by lefty404
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swampshooter
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Posted: 20 November 2008 01:50 PM |
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I don't have any idea why they would do this, but it's not good. Gas cutting or scaling occur just in front of the case mouth and after repeated firings with short brass the chamber just in front of the case mouth will get rough and scaly making it difficult or impossible to eject a round with longer dimensions. It does take quite a few rounds before this occurs, and your brass will stretch with repeated firings, but .018 is a lot of difference. In years past it was quite common to make .270 brass by necking down 30/06 brass. This created brass that had a short neck, but was fine otherwise. A lot of shooters did this, although I didn't do it myself. I never heard of problems caused by doing this, but repeated firing of .38 spec. in a .357 will eventually cause extraction problems in a revolver, and I have done that, rendering a .357 that will not eject .357 cartridges. There is only .010 difference in these two cases. This scale will not clean up as it is actually roughness of the steel. If it were me I would just go ahead and shoot this brass, but buy a different brand next time.
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swampshooter
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Posted: 20 November 2008 01:58 PM |
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| PS. Please excuse my decimal point error, it's early in the morning for me. Difference in .38 spec. and .357 mag is .100.
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72coupe
Handloading Master
| Joined: | 11 June 2006 |
| Location: | Iowa Park, Texas USA |
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Posted: 20 November 2008 02:21 PM |
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Lefty I don't think it will create any problems for you at all. After just 4 or 5 firings you will need to trim them to the correct length.
Just shoot it and have fun.
Personnally I am to cheap to buy the good stuff.
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lefty404
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| Joined: | 4 February 2008 |
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Posted: 20 November 2008 03:21 PM |
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| Thanks guys for the replys thus far. Last week I reloaded 100 rounds of Winchester brass in .223. I did the flash hole deburring, uniformed the primer pockets. This brass was all on average 1.755 in length, so I also trimmed to length. The only thing I did not do this time was neck turn any of the cases. I use lee dies and the last thing I did was run the necks through the Lee collet neck die so inside diameter is concentric and of course I chamfered and deburred the casings also. At this point and time I have not fired any of these rounds at the range yet. The other thing I did was I took all 100 rounds and checked how the concentricity was on each loaded round was. And it ranged from .001 to .006 run out. With the Nosler Brass my run out on the 100 rounds I have loaded is .002- .001 honest. This run out is on the bullet concentricity on the win. and nosler brass. I'm a royal tinkerer I admit but I have fun doing it, and I have the patience to do it. Looking back I bought at one time a box Winchester and Federals top of the line loaded ammo and was astonished to find that in the federal ammo there were no rounds that had less than .005 run out and the most was .012 That was a 28.00 box of Ammo. Win. was alot better running from .003 to .006 run out. But anyway thats just me being curious on the more expensive ammo on the store shelves.
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72coupe
Handloading Master
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Posted: 20 November 2008 03:38 PM |
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I sort the ammo I am going to shoot at 600 yards for run out. I use the 0.001 or less for competition and use the others for practice. But since I started using a Forster Bench Rest Seater my run outs have been small.
I minimize run out by seating the bullet half way and then turning the case 180° and seating the rest of the way.
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lefty404
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Posted: 20 November 2008 07:40 PM |
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| Thanks 72coupe. I use the forster bench rest bullet seater on my 7mm and use the hornady bullet seater with microadjust for my 223 and my 22-250 lovem both but never thought about the 180 turn deal........................lllllllllllllllllllllefty
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swampshooter
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Posted: 21 November 2008 12:56 AM |
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| For my target rifle I use Lapua brass and Redding competition dies. I also turn 180 degrees. About 50% go .001 or less, The rest go .0015-.0025, but maybe 1 out of 25 or so will get up to .005. Just info for your comparison. This is without neck turning.
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lefty404
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Posted: 21 November 2008 12:07 PM |
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| Aaaaaah yes Lapua does have .223 brass. Man I can't afford to be switching around but maybe I'll start a kitty for a batch. Swampshooter on the lapua brass do you have to or do you have to do any further prep on lapua brass. I've never checked on that If you do what do you do ???? Lefty
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swampshooter
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Posted: 21 November 2008 02:12 PM |
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| Lefty404, I haven't been doing any extra prep on my Lapua brass. I'm now shooting a 6.5x284 for long range target shooting. 3 and 600 yds. 300 yd. groups run around 1.3 with loads having no more than .001 runout, and 1/2" more with loads running .015-.025. I'm going to start cleaning up the necks to see if I can get a higher percentage of loads measuring .001 or less as I will be shooting 1,000 yds. in the spring. These are shot prone with a bi-pod, F-class style.
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polarbear
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| Joined: | 20 November 2008 |
| Location: | Pfeifer, Kansas USA |
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Posted: 22 November 2008 08:13 AM |
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excuse me for the separate question, but what do you mean by runout
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lefty404
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Posted: 22 November 2008 12:12 PM |
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| Good morning polarbear, Run out is another term I call the plus and the minus of concentricity. And this concentricity is of the exact, I'll say roundness of the brass cartridge case neck. If you are familiar with Sinclair International you can go on there web sight http://www.sinclairintl.com on page 31 in there most recent catalog you will see the Sinclair concentricity gauge that has a dial indicator on it. There's a brass casing on there and the stem on the dial indicator is resting on the casings neck. Now as you rotate the casing keep an eye on the indicator. Now rotate the casing 380 degrees. Now each line on the dial indicator is .001 thousands. So after you place the casing on the rollers and the stem on the dial indicator is at .085 thousands before you start rotating the casing remember that .085 now as you rotate the casing watch the dial if the dial goes up to .086, then .087 then .086 then .085 then .084 then.085 the run out is is .003 thousands. So then on a loaded round you can adjust the dial indicator so the dial indicator stem is resting on the bullet just ahead of case neck or closer to the ogive of the bullet. I usually have the stem on bullet just a lttle bit past the case neck. These concentricity guages are available from RCBS Sinclair Redding and there's another one in Sinclairs catalog from Neco. Well I hope I didn't cause mass confusion. Hope it helps you out Lefty Good Shooting>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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