| Posted: Sat Apr 25th, 2009 01:04 AM |
|
1st Post |
Sogmanzulu
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Mon Aug 4th, 2008 |
| Location: | Medford, New York USA |
| Posts: | 55 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I have a hard time developing an accurate .308 load for a Remington Tactical rifle with a 20 inch barrel. The tests are performed in a gun vice, and the results are what I would consider poor: 2-3 inchs at 100 Yds. I use Winchester brass, Varget powder, and numerous bullets such as Nosler BT (165gr), Barnes TSC (168gr), and Sierra HPBT (168gr). I can take this same load and use it in my brothers Savage Tacticalk rifle, and it performs sub-MOA. Some advise please... 
____________________
NRA Life Member
NAHC Life Member
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 25th, 2009 01:18 AM |
|
2nd Post |
Timberghozt
Board Founder
| Joined: | Fri Feb 11th, 2005 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 6792 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | 300 Winchester Magnum ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I use Varget..If I were you,I`d try BL (C)-2
____________________
"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 25th, 2009 01:21 AM |
|
3rd Post |
Sogmanzulu
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Mon Aug 4th, 2008 |
| Location: | Medford, New York USA |
| Posts: | 55 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Yes, I do....
____________________
NRA Life Member
NAHC Life Member
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 25th, 2009 01:32 AM |
|
4th Post |
Ranch 13
Handloading Master
| Joined: | Sat Apr 1st, 2006 |
| Location: | Hells Gap, Wyoming USA |
| Posts: | 354 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
748 works quite well for velocity and accuracy in the 20 inch barreld blr we have here.
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 25th, 2009 01:34 AM |
|
5th Post |
Sogmanzulu
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Mon Aug 4th, 2008 |
| Location: | Medford, New York USA |
| Posts: | 55 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Can you tell me who makes that please?
____________________
NRA Life Member
NAHC Life Member
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 25th, 2009 01:36 AM |
|
6th Post |
Ranch 13
Handloading Master
| Joined: | Sat Apr 1st, 2006 |
| Location: | Hells Gap, Wyoming USA |
| Posts: | 354 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Winchester makes 748, Hogdons does BLC-2.
Ramshot Tac might be another good choice.
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 25th, 2009 12:38 PM |
|
7th Post |
RobertMT
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Sat Jan 17th, 2009 |
| Location: | Columbia Falls, MT |
| Posts: | 127 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | 270 wsm ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Have you checked scope and rings? Bedding? tried 150s?
Why the gun vice?
Did you mount scope or did it come on rifle? I would check bases and rings for proper tightness myself.
The next thing I would do, after checking bases and rings, would be to trade out scope for a known scope. Do you have another scope you could swap out? or trade with brothers. This is the simplest way to tell. I would be surprised if changing powder will make a 3" rifle into a 1" rifle.
Check fit of stock, action may not be setting in stock right. I would take it out, check it and put back in, be sure to tighten action screws. While you do this watch and see if stock torques.
If twist in barrel is too slow, 150s will shoot better. Rem Tac could be set up for 155s and have a 1/12 twist and may not stabilize the longer bullets you've been shooting.
____________________
RC
Columbia Falls, MT
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 25th, 2009 01:27 PM |
|
8th Post |
Paul Tummers
Moderator
| Joined: | Mon Jun 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Berg En Terblijt, Netherlands |
| Posts: | 592 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | .222 Rem and the .308 Winch. |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
My rifle has a 20"barrel- a Sauer 202 Forest.
I use Vhituvuori N140 for 180 grain bullets, works perfect for me.
____________________
There almost always is a way to do things better, more often than not by simplifying.
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 26th, 2009 02:19 AM |
|
9th Post |
Sogmanzulu
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Mon Aug 4th, 2008 |
| Location: | Medford, New York USA |
| Posts: | 55 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
The mount, rings, and scope are defenitely torqued down to specs. I double checked. I use the lead sled when testing new loads to take some of the human error out of the equation. The stock was bedded by a gun smith, and believe that is not the issue. I will try the 150 gr bullets tomorrow, and see if that makes a difference. Keeping my fingers crossed.....
____________________
NRA Life Member
NAHC Life Member
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 26th, 2009 04:55 AM |
|
10th Post |
miestro_jerry
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I shoot 308 Win, loaded with IMR 4895 or 4064, some times Winchester 748. I use Sierra 168gr HPBT and match primers. Just about every rifle I have owned no matter the barrel length has shoot these combinations with pin point accuracy out to 300 yards and many times beyond.
What is the barrel twist rate? If this was a 24 inch barrel cut back to 20 inches, you may have to adjust your loads and bullet weights to match the length and the twist.
Factories do cut barrels length down from standard lengths, so I am not saying that you did it.
Jerry
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 26th, 2009 04:46 PM |
|
11th Post |
RemMan700
HB Life Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 24th, 2009 |
| Location: | DFW, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 213 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
The barrel on his gun is 1/12 twist. I have a 700 VS which the same gun but has a 26" barrel. One load that works well in mine is 46gr of IMR4350 with a 150gr Sierra pro hunter soft point. The overall length of my cartrige is 2.74" which is a good jump because to touch the lands with that bullet it would have to be 2.91".
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 26th, 2009 05:58 PM |
|
12th Post |
DesertMarine
Moderator
| Joined: | Wed Nov 12th, 2008 |
| Location: | New Mexico USA |
| Posts: | 548 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Have your gunsmith or yourself check the crown. Most factory crowns are poor at best. I worked on a Rem 700 in 30-06 that was abused and had bad pitting for about 1 1/2" in from the muzzle. I cut about 1 3/4" off the barrel and recrowned it. The rifle had been shooting 3" groups and went down to 3/4" group with factory ammo. Best way to check a crown is with a bore scope, much better than calibrated eyeball or magnifying glass.
____________________
DesertMarine
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 04:44 AM |
|
13th Post |
halfdiamondc
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Wed Apr 1st, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 58 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I changed 30 years ago to a .308win for mule deer and elk, I can't remember how many .308's were in the house at any given time. And have reloaded for the same amount of time. Some of the rifles were rem660,rem788,weatherby vanguard, so I really like .308's. I have used imr 4895 for everything-165 spbt over40grs. slow at 2600 fps. but was good enough to put 2 in the boiler room at 452yds that you could cover with a dime (weatherby 20in. brl) just got to love those .308's
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 05:06 AM |
|
14th Post |
miestro_jerry
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
For a "standard round", I used to hunt with a 30-06, then after my time in the Army, I switch to the .308 Win. Both excellent cartridges and at one time brass was very plentiful.
I had and have many of both of them. I like the 308 between of the two these days.
Jerry
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 01:04 PM |
|
15th Post |
swampshooter
Moderator
| Joined: | Sun Aug 3rd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 572 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I'd try re-crowning and a different scope and if that doesn't work either put on a new barrel or trade rifles. Every once in a while you get one that is just a lemon. Better to get rid of it than beat your head against a brick wall. If your loads are shooting sub MOA in a different rifle changing powder or bullets isn't going to make it shoot the way you want it to. Did you check to make sure there isn't a build up of copper in the barrel? Some rifles copper foul faster than others. IMHO a magic load that will make a poor shooting rifle shoot good just doesn't exist. If it's shooting good loads in the 3" range, load development isn't going to fix it. Last edited on Mon Apr 27th, 2009 01:16 PM by swampshooter
____________________
NRA Endowment member
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 01:40 PM |
|
16th Post |
miestro_jerry
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
If this is a poor shooting rifle, you want to try rebarreling it, or sell it and buy another one.
Jerry
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 01:53 PM |
|
17th Post |
Ranch 13
Handloading Master
| Joined: | Sat Apr 1st, 2006 |
| Location: | Hells Gap, Wyoming USA |
| Posts: | 354 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I seriously doubt there's anything wrong with the rifle. He says he's getting 2-3 inch groups. Well that's not great but its not bad. Before I started hamhanding anything on the rifle itself, I'ld try different brass. Some if not most rifles will show a definate preferance for one brand of brass.
Bullet seating depth is another thing that is usually specific to a rifle. What works with one rifle may or may not work with another. Some bullets don't like to be touching the lands, or anywhere near the land, others won't work worth a flip until they're jammed hard into the lands.
Once in awhile just swapping out the brand of primer will make a good bit of difference.
To many load variables to go thru before doing anything like grinding on the crown, or rebarreling.
There could be an outside chance the scope has a bit of paralax .
I think I'ld start with a good scrubbing of the bore to make sure there isn't any excessive copper fouling, and then go to work on different loads, seating depths, brand of cases, and different primers.
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 02:11 PM |
|
18th Post |
miestro_jerry
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Ranch,
I agree with you, but after adjusting loads and components, if it still shoots less that what Sogmanzulu wants out of this rifle it is time to move on from trying to make this rifle work to his tack driving requirement.
I have owned some rifles that 2 to 3 inch groups is the best they ever could do, so I traded around for another rifle or cash.
On a Model 70 in 223, it could only do groups down to about 2 inches, I rebarreled it and it was shooting quarter size groups. That Model 70, I played around with the loads for about 6 months before deciding to get a new barrel.
Sogman was there a target in the box with the rifle? Some do and that will show what they could do at the factory.
Jerry
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 02:13 PM |
|
19th Post |
Russ Clagett
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Mon Feb 23rd, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 35 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
this is simply my opinion, and we all know what that's worth, but I think there is probably alot wrong with the rifle.
this is based on long experience with Remington tactical rifles, they used to be the bomb, but not so much anymore. There have been some quality issues I've seen over the years, and some should never have left the shop.
I was a SWAT sniper for a decade, and I've seen bedding issues, poor crowns, seriously bad triggers, and out of true actions, and even parkerizing inside the bore. It costs Remington about $18 for each barrel. Some are very rough.
I'd have a GOOD riflesmith borescope the barrel, and redo the crown. I'd check the scope mounts thoroughly, then the bedding.
Try some heavier bullets too, again this is just my opinion, but my old guns with a 12 inch twist didnt do well at all with 150's, a little better with 165/168's, but they sang a song with the 175 or 180's. Just a thought.
Or you could sell it and get a FN SPR and not worry about it. Those guns shoot.
Good luck.
Russ
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 02:16 PM |
|
20th Post |
Paul Tummers
Moderator
| Joined: | Mon Jun 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Berg En Terblijt, Netherlands |
| Posts: | 592 |
| Photo: | [Download] | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | rifle | | My favorite chambering is:: | .222 Rem and the .308 Winch. |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I found out, the OAL of my rounds is very important in relation to a certain bullet;
My loads with the 180 gn Accubond do like a more generous lead better than the 155 Hornady A-max bullet.
When I bought my stoney Point OAL measuring tool, I tought, I really could improve accuracy bij making my rounds just not touching the lands- what Bench-rest shooters do will be OK for me too- it was really dissapointing to find out, that for some loads accuracy dropped down enormously, some down to useless.
Brass of course is important; I never looked for cutting corners on brass, and the Lapua brass performs very well in all the rifles I loaded for.
____________________
There almost always is a way to do things better, more often than not by simplifying.
|
| Current time is 12:33 AM | Page: 1 2 3   |
|
