| Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 02:34 PM |
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21st Post |
Ranch 13
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Jerry, yup if after exhausting all load avenues and the thing still won't shoot, then it's time to make the trip to the gunsmith. Just make sure its a GUNSMITH vs the gun parts changers that seem to be so common these days.
Pauls seating depth is spot on. Had a LEO friend, that got a Ruger #1 varmint in 308. Tried some of his duty ammo, which was the Federal match loaded with the Sierra bullet. That rifle one shoot well under moa with that load. He then proceeded to get all the bells and whistles that some think you have to have to make accurate reloads, and proceeded to seat that same Sierra bullet out just like all the magazine articles etc, said you should using all the supposed proper primer, cases,powder etal.
Accuracy was akin to an improved modified choke pattern. He was totally bummed when he called. I asked him did you try setting the length on your loads to match your duty ammmo? Silence, then he said well I guess I could try it. Called back in a couple of days, just as esstactic as could be, oal to match the duty ammo and Z23 zingo he had super tight groups.
Sometimes we get to carried away looking for the holy grail of group size, and overlook the obvious and simplest things.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27th, 2009 04:03 PM |
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22nd Post |
miestro_jerry
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Accuracy is a a subjective opinion. I have a 40X in 308 Win that will put three rounds into a nickle size hole at hundred meters. What the rifle cost and the amount of time I put in to finding the right load was great.
This puppy cost about $2,500. It will out shoot my skills. For the price I got an extremely accurate rifle.
Put that up against some of the bolt guns that I have owned in the past, the 40X wins hands down. Better than any Model 70 that I have owned, better than my M1A Ultra Match, most of my rifles get tuned up but the 40X was great out of the box.
Would I buy another one, yes, but then again would I buy a Marlin 336 for deer hunting, yes.
It is all in the need, what your skills are, what your load is and what is the weather at the range.
Jerry
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 12:27 AM |
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23rd Post |
Sogmanzulu
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Jerry,
No target present.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 12:28 AM |
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24th Post |
Timberghozt
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Russ Clagett wrote: this is simply my opinion, and we all know what that's worth, but I think there is probably alot wrong with the rifle.
this is based on long experience with Remington tactical rifles, they used to be the bomb, but not so much anymore. There have been some quality issues I've seen over the years, and some should never have left the shop.
I was a SWAT sniper for a decade, and I've seen bedding issues, poor crowns, seriously bad triggers, and out of true actions, and even parkerizing inside the bore. It costs Remington about $18 for each barrel. Some are very rough.
I'd have a GOOD riflesmith borescope the barrel, and redo the crown. I'd check the scope mounts thoroughly, then the bedding.
Try some heavier bullets too, again this is just my opinion, but my old guns with a 12 inch twist didnt do well at all with 150's, a little better with 165/168's, but they sang a song with the 175 or 180's. Just a thought.
Or you could sell it and get a FN SPR and not worry about it. Those guns shoot.
Good luck.
Russ
I know how to load a 308..and shoot a 308..but honestly this man here can probably tell you more about a 308 than any man on this board.As a Police sniper, and sniper in Iraq.I served with himand his knowledge of the 308 will most definitely outweigh me.Ballistically,I know it well..but not as well as this man.
Listen to what he says;.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 12:43 AM |
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25th Post |
Sogmanzulu
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Yesterday I was able to work out what I think the issue was, and it appeared to be the bullet weight. I handloaded rounds between 150 and 180 gr, and the 180gr worked to my satisfaction ( 4 holes in .63in). The only change was reducing the powder charge and using the 180gr. I greatly appreciate the help and suggestions.
By the way, the 180's dont do well in my brothers rifle, but thats his issue...
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 01:23 PM |
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26th Post |
Russ Clagett
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This is really good news for you, your rifle liking the heavier bullets. I know the 150's zoom out of the muzzle, but they lose all that zoom rather quickly. The 180 starts out a little slower, but it really hauls the goods out there at 800 or so. And it hits hard.
You might play around with small, incremental seating differences now that you know what the gun likes. And dont feel bashful about trying all kinds of different bullets too. You never know what bullet the gun will end up liking, but there wont be any doubt when you find it.
Good luck......you're halfway there!
Russ
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28th, 2009 04:01 PM |
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27th Post |
DesertMarine
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I use the Stoney Point OAL gage on all my rifle reloading. Each rifle is different, some like the bullet touching the lands, some a certain distance off the lands. Need to try different seating depths until you find what your rifle likes.
There have been a lot of different suggestions, all good, to find a solution to 3" groups. The most obivious are, bedding, trigger, barrel condition, crown, scope, rings and mounts.
Last December NRA Rifleman magazine had a good article on scope mounting. Big point that was made was to ensure that mount and ring screws were not over-torqued. It does not take that much torque to mount a scope. It is very easy to over-torque and bend or damage a good scope. Check with mount and ring manufacturer for their recommendations. Mounts normally take about 28-32 inch-pounds of torque and rings slightly less. Remember inch-punds not foot-pounds.
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| Posted: Tue May 26th, 2009 12:03 AM |
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28th Post |
BAT1
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Here are some good loads, but it may be a quality control issue:
Alliant RE- 15 43 gr / 150-168 gr.
Hodgden Varget 43 gr/ 150- 168 gr
Hodgden BLC- [2] 46 gr 150- 168 gr
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| Posted: Tue May 26th, 2009 11:58 AM |
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29th Post |
swampshooter
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One 4-shot group at 100 yds. doesn't tell us much. I've had rifles that wouldn't average 2" shoot an occasional 1/2" group. I'd suggest shooting 5 groups of 5 shots each at 100 yds. Then average them. If your average is 1" or less you have a good shooting gun. If not then back to square one.
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ottsixx
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usually 308 winchesters are deadly accurate and they are so very easy about it,for starters wondering if the barrel is fouled out,a friend of mine recently had a friend bring him his 7 mm mag and said it would not shoot accurately any longer,So my friend started cleaning and scrubbing and said he ended up with a 2 liter pop bottle full of black patches befor they finally started to clean up and once he was thru with the cleanup he said the rifle shot just fine again and according to my powder manual there are some of the powders in the class of 308 win. powders that are known to be rather barrel fouling,just a thought..............................
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miestro_jerry
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When I get a crusty barrel, I use spray carburetor cleaner and it does the job. Then I do a good cleaning with Shooter Choice or Ed's Red to finish the job.
I like Ed's Red these days for my weapons.
Jerry
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ottsixx
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yipper as I do also I made up a gallon of it last year and I just think its the cats meow.....................
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miestro_jerry
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Welcome to the forum, I have Ed's Red with and without Lanolin. It does work really great, but you only mixed up one gallon?
Jerry
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MoreShooter
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Try this load for your 20" barrel, 44gr +/- reloader 15 with a 175 gr Sierra Match King. This duplicates the M118LR load. It typically shoots gangbusters, especially on short tactical barrels. just my .02. By the way I'm new to the forum and mix Eds Red myself.
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BAT1
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I've been working up some 155 Match loads with Varget, Re-15 and and BLC-[2]. [Any good recipes welcome] I'm going stir crazy waiting for my Choate Tactical stock to build up my Stevens. With a SSS 9 round detachable mag, it will be ten shot. A Heavy varmint barrel will finish, it out. I may Camo the stock, @ 3 lbs 11 oz. Then I'll rework loads again.
Ed's Red and a Sonicare, gets you a real clean machine. I've used it for years, try it in your parts washer.
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Paul B
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RemMan700 wrote: The barrel on his gun is 1/12 twist. I have a 700 VS which the same gun but has a 26" barrel. One load that works well in mine is 46gr of IMR4350 with a 150gr Sierra pro hunter soft point. The overall length of my cartrige is 2.74" which is a good jump because to touch the lands with that bullet it would have to be 2.91".
Are you sure about that 1 in 12" twist?  According to the reference material in the Speer loading manual, Remington uses a 1 in 10" twist for the .308. The only Remington I have that's a .308 is my old 1973 M660 and it is definitely a 1 in 10" twist. Not saying you're wrong, just curious if remington is using two different twists these days or changed twists from previous practice?
Paul B.
Last edited on Fri Aug 7th, 2009 06:24 PM by Paul B
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Paul B
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Big Stick wrote: PSS's,VSSF's,LTR's,yada,yada are 1-12" typically.
A 1-12" 308Win at 20",will easily stabilize the 175SMK and the like....................
I dunno why the, "yada yada yada" for a legitimate question? I hadn't heard Remington was doing the 1 in 12" thing in certain rifle, or do you consider anytime someone questions you as stupid question. Where I come from, there ain't no such thing.
Paul B.
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Timberghozt
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Paul,my apologies.Pay no attention to this man.He offers nothing useful to this board and as such is banned FOREVER.
Gene
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RaySendero
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Paul B wrote: Are you sure about that 1 in 12" twist? According to the reference material in the Speer loading manual, Remington uses a 1 in 10" twist for the .308. The only Remington I have that's a .308 is my old 1973 M660 and it is definitely a 1 in 10" twist. Not saying you're wrong, just curious if remington is using two different twists these days or changed twists from previous practice?
Paul B.
Paul,
My son has a Remington in .308 (~2005) with a 20" 1:12 barrel - So they still use it on some models. It stabilizes 165s BTSPs and 168 BT match ammo well.
Last edited on Fri Aug 7th, 2009 11:24 PM by RaySendero
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BAT1
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Thanks Gene. You are a good moderator.
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