| Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2009 06:34 PM |
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nptbb01
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All,
I have been reloading pistols for quite some time so I am familar with reloading.
I just started reloading for 223. I clean, trim, debur, deprime, inspect all cases. I load each round exactly the same. I use Dillon full sizer dies. Once completed I check each round with a Dillon Case Gauge.
When I go to the range to fire a couple of rounds, every other round wont chamber all the way.
I do crimp as the bullets that I am using have a canalure. Could it be the crimp causing this issue? Why would it fit the case gauge but not the rifle chamber? Should I try with less to no crimp?
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2009 06:52 PM |
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RemMan700
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What type of gun is this in? Autoloader or lever action? If so you may need to use small base dies.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2009 11:17 PM |
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rat31465
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My first guess with only this limited information to go on would be that the web of the casings haven't been resized properly.
Another issue I have seen with a buddies reloading setup was that he was over expanding the case mouths and the crimper wouldnt compress the necks back into specs so a ballon of sorts would form just behind the mouth of the casing.
Even with the use of a Full Length sizers I have experienced this myself in the past. I switched to Small Base dies for use with my AR's for just such a case as you describe here.
My next thought would be that the casings might have previously been fired in a rifle with some head space issues which has allowed the shoulder to be moved forward and will require your sizer be readjusted to bump the shoulder back somewhat.
Questions I would bring up are...
1. Is the rifle you are loading for a new gun to you, or one you have had and shot for awhile? If new will it chamber a factory round?
2. Is it Semi-Auto, Bolt etc...?
3. If it is an issue with bullets or crimp...does the bullets show signs of engraving as if they are being pushed into the rifling?
4. Is the Brass New or Once Fired?
5. Is the Brass commercial Brass or Military Headstamp?
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30th, 2009 11:29 PM |
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swampshooter
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The case gauge that I purchased from Dillon was too large for my AR-15. There are 3 or more chamber specs for the .223. Saami, nato and match, and actually there are no standard specs for match chambers, they are just tighter than Saami, Nato specs, actually 5.56x45 are larger than .223 Remington chambers. Frequently military ammo will not chamber in a Saami spec .223 Remington chamber. Regarding your question about the crimp. A crimp that is excessive will cause a bulge in the case neck just below the crimp. This can normally be felt with your fingers, but a case gauge will not detect it. A check with a micrometer will detect it though. If you are shooting a semi-auto you will need small base dies as mentioned in the previous post. Try reducing the crimp by backing off your die setting by 1/4 to 1/2 turn. If that doesn't work then you will have to purchase small base dies. Try some factory ammo in your case gauge and see if it goes in further than your reloads. I had to have a machinist take about .006 off of my case gauge in order to use it in conjunction with my chamber.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31st, 2009 06:59 PM |
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DesertMarine
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Rat has some great questions that you can look at and so do some of the other guys. I load for an AR chambered for 5.56. I use Redding Competition dies for .223 with a .256" bushing and set my dies to correspond to a .223 go gage. I do not crimp and haven't had any bullet movement problems or chambering problems. I use the Hornady headspacing gage to check headspace, used to be the Stoney Point. Have never used the small base dies, can't comment.
Sounds like resizing problems. Don't know about the over crimping. You could try measuring a new case and/or resized case at the neck and web before loading and then check your loaded rounds against that, might give you a clue.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31st, 2009 08:46 PM |
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swampshooter
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Desert marine, The 5.56 chamber is larger than the .223 chamber, hence the reason you never have problems when using standard dies.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 1st, 2009 03:26 PM |
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DesertMarine
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Agree with you Swampshooter, that is why I noted that I have 5.56 chamber and use .223 dies. Nptbb01 never clarified if loading for semi-auto or bolt rifle and if rifle is chambered for 5.56 or .223, sounds like .223. Still think main problem is die adjustment or need for bump die. Another way to check if sizing is problem is to check fired and resized cases with an RCBS Precision Mike. They can be pretty good. I use on in 270 and compared it with 270 go gage and it was dead on.
When I was loading .223 in bolt rifle, used same dies and would mainly neck size and when needed, used a bump die when I had trouble chambering. That normally took care of chambering problems.
Normally, I use commercial brass, mainly IMI but do use military brass, staying with LC brass. Haven't had any problems with them.
Educate me, what does a small base die do?
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| Posted: Sat Aug 1st, 2009 04:22 PM |
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Rockydog
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DesertMarine, A small base die simply has a tighter tolerances. Idealy, I believe they are supposed to return brass to true SAAMI specs. Many ARs, remington autos, lever guns etc. work best with small base dies as they don't have the camming action of a bolt gun to force cases that final little bit to fully lock the bolt. If not needed it's best to avoid them as they obviously work the brass more. RD
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| Posted: Sat Aug 1st, 2009 07:44 PM |
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rat31465
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A small base die will size the web of the casing right down to the extractor groove and eliminate the bulge which sometimes can develop right at the casings web.
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waawaaweenie
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I use the RCBS small base X dies on .223 and .308 both for semi autos with LC brass . I used to use standard full length resizing dies before with .223 in a mini 14 and when switching over to the AR, they didn't chamber correctly. Now I have "quite a few" to pull and resize for the AR. I no longer have the Ruger
The X dies are supposed to work the brass less and eliminate the need for trimming each time.
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WILDCATT
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I have never used small base dies.I have a garand in 30/06, and a garand carbine in 308.also a AR15.
set your FL sizing die against the shell holder then turn it down 1/4 turn.takes up the flex.
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ccw
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When this happened to me, I found that I was bulging the case slightly at the junction of the conical section (shoulder) and the barrel or body. The bulge was subtle but enough to stop the case from seating properly in the chamber, or on some occasions, sticking in the chamber after bolt lock. This malady was caused by getting overzealous on trying to get a good case mouth crimp into the cannelure of the bullet, and trying to do it in a combination of seat and crimp with one ram stroke = FAIL.
The cure was to separate the seat/crimp into two operations. First, seat the bullet with the seater die body up so the crimp land does not touch the mouth of the case neck. Second, pull the seat stem up out of the way and run the seater die body down until the crimp land touches the case neck. Adjust down in 1/16 turn increments until a good crimp is made. I suppose on a progressive setup, one would have to run two seater/crimp bodies with the first operation, then the second operation in sequence.
Finally, the refurbished or new cases must be trimmed to the exact same length after sizing and before seating/crimping or the batch crimp operation will be a bust.
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DesertMarine
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Thanks everyone for the info on small base dies. Had heard of them but did not know what they did or when needed. Learned something new.
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gunnerskmc
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I use Lee Factory Crimp in three ARs and an XCR and have never had a problem (Where is Murphy? ). Of course I full length size, trim with Lee trim die, and check each case for any abnormality.
If I am loading for a bolt gun, and ONLY have 1 gun in the caliber loaded, I neck size. WARNING..... if you try these loads in someone else's gun you may have a problem. The good part is the brass seems to last forever. I don't recommend neck sizing if you have several guns of the same caliber.
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