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klallen
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Posted: 9 October 2007 04:13 AM |
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Evening All >> Headed out on the second day of our Antelope season early this morning, hoping to run into a few less people up at our area. We'd seen lots of animals the day before but just never could work out a stalk to our liking. We had permission to hunt on this land for the 1st 10 days of the season so were really weren't in any big hurry.
We had parked at a spot on one of the dirt county roads glassing a large group of antelope. There were two nice bucks in the group and my brother was entertaining the idea of taking a shot when two farm trucks came around the bend down where they were and pushed the whole herd over the top of the hill they had been resting on.
We turned our attention to another group that had moved in directly to our right. There was one decent sized horn in the group and I figured I'd give it a go.
I crossed the fence to get off the county road while my bro ranged him at 556 yds. I got down on bypod but when I did, lost view of the animals. I'd have to move forward. When I got myself to a point where the group was in view the range was 506 yds. At this distance, I would need just over 1 mil adjustment. The wind was coming left to right at a pretty good clip so I gave a 1/4 mil hold into it on a perfect broadside shot.
There was the clear sound of impact. I was using my 7.82 Warbird with a new load that I'd just developed using Hornady's new 208 gr. .308 A-Max. The herd ran to my left a short distance and the buck followed for about 10 yds. and then he just laid down. He sayed laid down, head up and alert, for the next several minutes. I figured my hit was just a ways back, maybe into the gut but the way he was moving, he looked to be hurt pretty bad.
The herd had no idea where we where and no idea that the buck of the group had been hit so they all came back to him and laid down around him. We watched for a while, thinking he'd certianly bleed out, but he didn't.
After some time, we sent Dad off to our left, hoping his movement would coax the group into getting up. It did and the buck got up to, but quickly laid back down.
We watched for probable 15 minutes longer. The group had run off, farther back with the buck having no intentions of following. So my bro and I decided we'd just walk straight at him. It seemed pretty clear, even if he did get up, he'd be going nowhere quickly so I'd have time to get down for a finisher.
We got within 400 yds of him when he finally did get up and slowly started to walk straight back the direction the group had gone. I got down and watched him in the scope. The whole time his butt was directly at me. 410 ... 425 ... 433 ... 450 yds. At this point he came to a fence and I was hoping this is where he'd turn broadside as he tried to decide how he'd get through. Instead, he simply scooted and kept walking, butt to me. At 460 yds., I was seriously thinking I'd have to take a texas heart shot. I certainly didn't want to but didn't want a wounded animal walking for who knew how long.
At one point, he stumbled pretty bad that turned him as he caught himself and put him in a severly quartering to my angle. It's the best I had, bro read out 475, I took a quick read of the drop chart on the scope and sqeezed. That one anchored him.
A full measurement hasn't been taken. Length is just under 14" with based right around 6". His prongs are extremely weak but what interested me about this one was the tight curl back and a 1" prong that he had coming out the back side of the right horn. I'd seen antelope with bumps and different locations of the horn but had never personally seen a third, backward direction prong.
Performance of the 208 A-Max was good. The first shot did enter and exit far back of the lung but it clipped the liver. We couldn't really believe, with all the time that we gave, that he didn't bleed out sooner. The severly quartering impact entered at about the second to last rib on the close side, traveled back through the animal, shattered through the off-side, back hip and lodged under the skin after going through the ham. It was recovered and weighted 87.6 grns. What was left of the core fell out of the jacket as I was holding it. All in all, not much weight was retained but it was in a classic mushroom and had plowed through lots of meat, grissle and bone before coming to rest. I think they'll work just fine for deer season later this month.
Anyway, Dad and Bro are heading back out in the morning and I'm lucky enough to have to go back to work.  Hopefully they'll have some luck. Later. >> korey
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Mark V
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Posted: 9 October 2007 07:26 AM |
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TasunkaWitko
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Posted: 9 October 2007 03:55 PM |
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| congratulations!
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ss7mm
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Posted: 10 October 2007 01:31 AM |
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Korey:
Great looking antelope and writeup. Glad you got him, but I'm sorry you had to go back to work. That's no fun.
Hope Roy and Kirby get theirs and you guys can make it 3 for 3. That extra prong makes for a very unusual mount. Sometimes character and extra trash makes antlers/horns even more special.
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klallen
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Posted: 10 October 2007 03:27 AM |
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Thanks guys. Had lots of fun. Always enjoy the quality time spent with my favorite hunting partners.
SS, I don't have any specifics on size, but talked to Kirb earlier today and I guess he was able to fill his tag. Dad did not. I didn't even get out of him how far a shot it was. He was hoping for some extended range work but the darn winds have been rolling since season started, making things kinda touchy. I would imagine a write-up will be soon coming over on LRH.com. I'll have to read it along with your fellers to see exactly what happened. LOL. Take it easy.
korey
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The_Mountaineer
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Posted: 10 October 2007 03:26 PM |
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Excellant news Korey!
Sounds like the Allen brothers are doing well with the speed goats this year!
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klallen
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Posted: 12 October 2007 05:50 AM |
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Thanks MOUNTAINEER.
The brothers did ok this year but dad was able to score this morning on a real nice buck. Needing a lot of walking to get into position for the shot then to get him back to the truck but it was well worth the effort. Used his .25/284 on a shot that was just shy of 400 yds. Scored 79 6/8". Once again, he had to show the boys how it was done. Second year in a row he's got the big one of the hunting group. And second year in a row I've got the smallest.  Gotta work on changing that trend. LOL. I'll get a pic of his and the bro's up when I see a print.
General big game season starts in two weekends so now we gotta shift gears from antelope to big Mulies and Whitetail. I just love this time of year !!!
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OkieHunter
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Posted: 2 November 2007 10:21 PM |
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| Good Looking goat
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VarmintGuy
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Posted: 21 December 2007 05:53 AM |
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Klallen: First off thats a dandy Buck you got there congratulations on taking that trophy!
I read your posting the first time (on Oct 11th) just after you posted it when I got home from my own "public lands" Antelope Hunt in central Montana.
And since reading it I have had mixed feelings about your conduct. So mixed and so worried have I become that I have finally decided to "make some suggestions" so you hopefully won't have a fine game animal suffering again out on the Prairie like yours did this year!
First of all it does not take a 7.82 Warbird to kill an Antelope - especially on a ranch where you have exclusivety for 10 days!
Secondly it does not take a 208 gr. projectile to impart a nearly instant and humane death to such a fine trophy as yours was. I killed a 15" Antelope on public lands last year with a 130 gr. bullet from a 270 Winchester. This shot was at a Leica Laser Rangefinder reading of 508 yards. That is the longest distance I have ever attempted to kill a Big Game Animal! I was sure I could do it with one shot and I did. I only considered taking the shot because the wind was "dead calm"! And that brings me to my third point.
Thirdly do not attempt "long shots" at Game Animals in wind like you described! I have been Hunting Antelope since the 1960's and many years I have Hunted two different states and taken multiple Antelope per year most years since the 1960's. I have killed FAR in excess of 100 Antelope over the years. One thing I have LONG since learned is not to shoot at distant (and by distant I mean in excess of 250 yards) Antelope in "windy" conditions! PERIOD! I have seen to many other Hunters inflict non-lethal wounds on these creatures to advocate said conditions shooting!
Just DON"T do it! Be patient. Wait for the wind to die down and try your stalks again. Especially if you are Hunting on private lands with the resulting less Hunter competition!
I shoot Varmints year round and fire in excess of 4,000 rounds at them every year! I often kill them at ranges near and just past 500 yards BUT I won't shoot at them in significant winds - I know better.
The fact is (and its this fact that bothers me!) you made a bad and I think unwarranted decision to try to kill that fine animal at an extreme range - when the significant cross wind was compounding your situation!
The purpose of my posting is to REMIND you that bullets don't always go where we "wish" they would go! You wishing that bullet into the "kill zone" of that animal didn't work did it! It probably won't work next time you try it either!
I am also surprised that you recovered one of those 208 grain bullets you shot into that animal. I have my own subjective and less "tangible" opinions on the bullets you were using but let me mention this instead of expounding on your choice of bullets. I have cleanly, quickly and humanely killed Antelope with bullets from the following calibers: 223 Remington, 22-250 Remington, 220 Swift, 243 Winchester, 6mm Remington, 240 Weatherby, 6mm Remington Ackley Improved, 257 Roberts, 25-06 Remington, 260 Remington, 264 Winchester Magnum, 270 Winchester, 280 Remington, 7mm Express, 7mm Remington Magnum, 308 Winchester, 30-06 and 300 Winchester Magnum. I have never felt the need nor have I used a bullet in excess of 150 grains in weight! They are not needed for Antelope. And I have not used a Rifle in larger than 27 caliber on Antelope for 25 years or more.
You want a bullet that will enter the heart/lung area of the Antelope and violently expand (even blow up if you like that description!) IN there! Once you have accomplished this simple task (placing a rapidly expanding bullet into the heart/lung area) you simply walk out to your trophy and put your tag on him! This NEVER FAILS!
I hope you (no actually I don't care if you do but for the sake of the Antelope it would be best if you do) take these suggestions to heart. I have taken the time to relay to you my EXTENSIVE first hand experiences and first hand observations and I hope you will consider them before you ever again try to "wish" a bullet into the heart/lung area of an Antelope at 506 yards in a significant crosswind!
If I had been there with you I would have talked you out of that shot! We would either have come back later in the day when the prairie winds often recede or came back the next day for another try - or tried to get the wind directly at your back or directly into your face as you crawled closer to the animal!
I have found to many wounded Antelope out on the Prairies of the Rocky Mountain states to let a young man like yourself think that "wishing" a bullet will work out OK when odds are it won't .
By the way I killt a real dandy of an Antelope on this years opener with a 260 Remington and 100 gr. bullets at a lasered 360 yards. This was accomplished after crawling more than 250 yards to "close the distance". That Buck fell instantly in his tracks and never once raised its head! There is a lesson there and I hope you can digest it properly.
100 gr. bullets are plenty for an Antelope Hunter!
Better luck next year!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
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klallen
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Posted: 21 December 2007 08:30 AM |
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R U 4 REAL ?
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barebackpat
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Posted: 23 December 2007 04:34 PM |
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| Korey, that is a very nice antelope you got this year. conratulations on a fine animal and a nice shot. I have seen lots of antelope shot with bullets anywhere from 35 to 300 grain. The antelope never seem to notice how big the bullet was if placed in the proper spot. And if we all wait for the wind to be calm in centeral montana to shoot our antelope, i dont know about you but i will never get mine killed. good shooting and congrats again. pat
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klallen
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Posted: 23 December 2007 11:42 PM |
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Evening, Pat. The arrogance of people never ceases to amaze, that's for sure. Something really pushed ole VG over the edge. I had to go back to the story and look at the pics just to remind myself that I did infact recover the animal in a timely mannor. After reading his comments, I was convinced I'd fatally wounded and lost him .
The first time I read his post, I laughed out loud. No kidding. Someone couldn't possibly think themselves so important as to cover so many hair-brain topics related to one hunt. The second time pissed me off cause he had thought himself so important to do so. Being chastized by a 60-something who never shoots in the wind and thinks 500 yd. varminting is long range didn't set well. I started a reply telling him so and realized it was a waste of my time addressing every comment of nonsense that was written. One of these things ...  . LOL.
I don't want to make it sound like I don't like talking to old-timers because I do. The ones that share their experiences as well as "listen", that is. But you run into a few who think what they have to say is far more valuable then it really is. You can peg these jokers a mile away cause their comments are usually precluded by listing a weak resume' based on several decades of doing nothing special and using that as some sort of validation; proveing they should be allowed to dispense advise.
"And if we all wait for the wind to be calm in centeral montana to shoot our antelope, i dont know about you but i will never get mine killed. good shooting and congrats again. pat"
So true.
We'll see if he comes back to play. korey
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barebackpat
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Posted: 23 December 2007 11:59 PM |
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| Good evening to you too Korey, I have a friend that once said to me "I have never been too close with too much gun." And i find that very true. I think this coming year i might just take my new 30-378 weatherby for a run at speed goats just to get it warmed up for deer and elk season. Probably shooting a 200 grain accubond if i can get the load worked up and shooting good enough to suit me. I like to hear from the older generation to if you listen you can often learn a lot from them. And learn from what mistakes or experiences they have had. I aggree that a joker is usually very easy to spot. If you listen to what some have to say sometimes they will prove themselves wrong or sometimes a fool. I am curious to see what happens also. Hope you have a merry christmas and a happy new year. Pat
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Rockydog
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Posted: 24 December 2007 01:18 AM |
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Korey, VG probably makes some valid points here, IF he was talking to a 15 year old or a novice long range shooter. I actually thought it a little odd too. Kind of like giving the Pope lessons on spirituality. Well, OK maybe the Bishop.  At any rate it looks and sounds like a good hunt to me. Maybe someday I'll get to pull the trigger on a speed goat myself. RD
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8mm06
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Posted: 24 December 2007 01:34 AM |
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| I believe in using enough gun and if sure of your shot, pull the trigger. How does the 7.82 warbird compare to the 30-378. sounds like I should get one.
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klallen
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Posted: 24 December 2007 01:59 PM |
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Morning Gentlemen.
Pat, you know, with what I'm most interested in nowadays (large cartridges, new cartridges, new bullets, 1000+ yd. varminting) there seems to be less and less I can learn from the older generation. I mean really, you talk with most of them, they're .30-06, good ole remington bullets that haven't changed since the 60's and close range hunting. This is a generalization but you get the point. And these aren't bad things but me and them tend to be in two very different places as far as interests and expertice go. It's been a long long time since I've entered a conversation with a 60-something looking or needing to learn something. Rather I enjoy just the exchange of stories and experiences for the conversation more then anything else.
RD, I think you've pin-pointed exactly what hit the nerve with VG's comments. He wasn't talking to a 15 year old. Looking at the pics of the string, he clearly knew this and chose to post anyway. He wasn't dealing with a novice, either. A quick background check here at the site in the varminting and big game sections would have shown him that. He chose not to do so. Rather, criticize everything from cartridge used, bullet used, shot taken, skill level, etc., etc., etc. Pure arrogance. Unfortunately, it's a sad condition in "some" of the older generation that occurs when they place to much value on their decades in the field. I'm not saying the young guys can't be arrogant either. There's is based on stupidity and not knowing any better, though. Truth be told, I wouldn't want a 15-year old or novice listening to what VG has to say. Shooting in the wind up here is an every day occurance. The proper mode of operation is not to close up shop and avoid it at all cost, as has been suggested. It's getting the gun out and putting in the time educating ones self by shooting in it at both still targets and varmints. I want a 15-year old or a novice to learn. Continue to better themselves, not put their heads in the sand when it starts to blow a little bit.
8mm-06, in 26", 27", 28" barrels, the Warbird and .30-378 are identical in performance. The Warbird case in relatively efficient, in the sense that it's 105 gr. capacity will churn up these kinds of numbers equalling the 115 - 120 grs. used in the .30-378. Once you get into 29+" barrels, the .30-378 will start gaining you velocity by virtue of it's very larger powder capacity. I don't really know what factory WbyMag ammo will run ya but know the Warbird stuff is expensive. It's a reloading proposition, in my opinion, and even then the price might turn some folks away. $49 for a box of 20 cases and $136 for RCBS dies as of latest MidwayUSA check. A little spendy. But cost wasn't an issue when I got my Warbird. I'd fallen in love with the performance potential long before I could afford a custom Lazzeroni rifle and when Sako came out with their affordable TRG-S, that's all it took. Been shooting it since 2000 and loving every minute of it. It's responded real well to the 180 gr. Ballistic Tip & AccuBond and the 200 gr. AccuBond. Didn't do to bad with the 208 gr. A-Max either.
Hope you all have a wonderfull & safe holiday season. Later. korey
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barebackpat
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Posted: 24 December 2007 03:59 PM |
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Korey, i understand where you are coming from. I myself dont varmit at 1000 yards very often but i do like to shoot that far. That is part of the reason i had my 257 stw built, was to take antelope a little farther away. I have talked with the older generation and it was like you said the old 06 or thier trusty 7 mag. Never had much use for either of these guns. Just my preference. I like a fairly flat and fast shooting gun.
Shooting in this part of the state is a challenge like you said. If you wait for the wind you may never shoot your gun. But if you take them out and shoot in the wind you will learn what kind of affect it will have on that particular rifle. And it is a good excuse to go out and shoot your gun.
Ammo for the 30-378 is about $48 for 20 new brass and sportsmans warehouse has loaded ammo on sale for around $86 a box. Weatherby is offering about 3-4 diffeernt loadings for the gun right now. The little i have been around the cartridge has been very impressive. A flat shooting long range weapon. Saw a deer taken this year at 782 yards. Never even twitched. Just my two cents. Pat
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8mm06
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Posted: 25 December 2007 03:29 PM |
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| Thanks for the info. I think the days of one gun for everything are gone ,there's a lot of real good stuff out there these days. That's from an old guy -good luck
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varmintcaller
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| Joined: | 30 December 2007 |
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Posted: 28 January 2008 06:58 PM |
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Korey
I am 68 years young, and i see absolutely nothing wrong with what you did. I only wish i had the equipment and skill to make the shots that you do. I have a .257 wby mag that i am tuning up to go antelope hunting and am hopeing i can dial it in to make a killing shot at 400 yards,or longer, if needed.
If you can do it, as far as im concerned, the sky is the limit. Not all of us old timers are "hundred Yarders"
Hmm, I wonder if my shoulder can handle a .50 bmg ?
Last edited on 28 January 2008 07:36 PM by varmintcaller
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