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Timberghozt
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| Joined: | 11 February 2005 |
| Location: | Salado, Texas USA |
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Posted: 25 June 2005 02:52 AM |
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Mickey Rat wrote: For those of you sighting in the big boomers...a tip:
Go to Wal-Mart and buy a gel bicycle seat cover. It costs about 10.00 and will tame the big boomers at the bench. My son came up with the ideal. It is absolutely amazing. I fire a 45-70 Siamese Mauser with loads in the 458 MAG range, and it sure helps me.
Hey Mickey.I have never heard of that but id does make sense.
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"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
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greysmoke
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| Joined: | 15 March 2005 |
| Location: | Port Elizabeth, South Africa |
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Posted: 5 July 2005 11:03 AM |
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Hi Mickey
Sounds like you have some experience with high power loads for the 45-70.
I am seriously considering getting a 45-70 on a no3 Ruger action. What bullets do you use, and at what vel?
All the best.
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Grey Smoke
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
-Winston Churchill
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The_Mountaineer
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| Joined: | 4 February 2005 |
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Posted: 5 July 2005 11:17 PM |
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The timing on this topic was perfect.
I've been thinking long and hard about a western elk/mule deer rifle. My choices:
7 Rem Mag, 7 STW, 300 Win. Mag., 300 RUM, 338 Win. Mag, 338 RUM. or perhaps the short mags though there seems to be a problem with heavy bullets seating.
I guess I'll probably end up sticking with the standard length (30-06) magnums (7 Rem Mag, 300 Win. Mag, 338 Win Mag.)
For elk I'd probably have to vote for the 338 Win. Mag though for a combo rifle (mulies and elk) I think a 7 STW might be the right ticket.
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Montani Semper Liber - Mountaineers are always free
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Mickey Rat
addicted handloader
| Joined: | 18 March 2005 |
| Location: | Dothan, Alabama USA |
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Posted: 6 July 2005 01:48 AM |
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greysmoke wrote: Sounds like you have some experience with high power loads for the 45-70.
I am seriously considering getting a 45-70 on a no3 Ruger action. What bullets do you use, and at what vel?
I absoluty love the Barnes line. I like the 450 grain HP spitzer @ 2400 fps (Siamese Mauser or Ruger ONLY). It kicks a bit.
I ordered every Barnes non-solid that Midway stocks from 250-500 grains, spitzer and not. I am currently working my way thru them. I want to find a nice midrange and heavy load. I want to use 250 & 350 gr for deer (Marlin) and the spitzers for the Siamese Mauser.
And yes, the Mauser loads kick! The bicycle pad really works, especially from the bench, but when all three rounds touch, it sure is pretty.
I've been considering having the Mauser opened up to a 45-100. I am suffering from not enough powder room.
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LilMag
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Posted: 8 July 2005 04:28 PM |
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Mickey Rat.........Just wanted to say, that I too had a long standing relastionship with Barnes bullets! However, over the years I have come to the final conclusion, that I cannot nor will not take any more gambles on those bullets NOT opening up on big game. The results of those bullets, when they work properly and expand are a thing of beauty but if that front section of that bullet fails to open, you might as well be throwing rocks at your quarry.
Now having an elk shot behind the shoulder through the lungs and that Barnes bullet just whizz right on through like an arrow shot from a bow, having a field point on the end of it's arrow, is not the results any hunter wants when using their rifle. Now before you tell me this or that, I will just say that I have been testing those various bullets in various makes of rifles since 1994 believe it or not. Barnes had a big problem back in the mid 90's on their bullets and I thought corrected the problem for a while anyway, speaking of the X bullets OK.
I have shot some of the closest groups on paper a bench rest shooter could want when sighting in mind you, with their XLC bullet. However it still came to pass that on several occasions when testing in a water tank (stock tank & various other medium tests) I had Barnes bullets not open up. Now most shooters or hunters, seemed to have a grouping problem with these bullets at first but that is not unusual and something that can be addressed with time at the reloading bench. I have had friends go on safari and have pass through shots on plains game from Impala to bluewildebeast using a 300 mag and 300 Ultra mag with Barnes XLC bullets. I have a total of 8 boxes of those bullets left downstairs and I will gladly sell for half price, if I can't exchange them for a Nosler, Swift or Speer TBBC bullet.
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bullet
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| Joined: | 25 March 2005 |
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Posted: 9 July 2005 08:49 PM |
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| My choice for a elk caliber would 7mm mag or the 30. magnums . I know that elk and moose are shot every year with 270 and 30:06 . But personally I would like to hit them a little harder and be able to reach out to longer range and have some hitting power when I get their ! Bullets well that is a horse of a different colour ! I would choose a good Bonded Core . I am kinded spoiler in that area . As a guide - I have seen lots of bullets used of all different Manufactors - some have given good results , other not so good . I do personally feel that the XLC are great killing bullet , providing you don't plan on eating or mounting the animal . The do cause real meat and hide damage ! These are just my options ! Regards Bullet
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Gunrunner
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| Joined: | 3 February 2005 |
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Posted: 10 July 2005 03:30 AM |
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I've got a question for you all regarding the 270 as an elk cartridge. Now I've never hunted nor shot an elk, so I don't have any first hand facts. But I've always read here and there that the 270 isn't a good elk cartridge.
I would think that a 270 with a 150gr Partition or even the lighter 140gr Accubond I've been testing on paper recently would be good out to at least 300 yards. (For me that would be a long shot at edible game.) I don't want to blow the animal away, but do want to make a humane kill.
After reading stories (not just here) of hunters taking elk with a 357 magnum, 243 Winchester and other smaller calibers I would think that a 270 would be enough gun. Why does the 270 get such a bad rap as an elk cartridge?
As an afterthought; by the time I eventually get to hunt some elk I'll probably have a more powerful cartridge in my lineup. But if the 270 is all I've got I'd go hunting. And I bet I'd be successfull as long as I do my part in puting the bullet where it's supposed to go.
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LilMag
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Posted: 10 July 2005 04:34 AM |
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Gunrunner, I'll try to answer your question concerning the .270 caliber OK. I have hunted elk when being a young man with a .270 caliber (one bull killed & one lossed) and I can honestly say in my humble opinion, that it just doesn't have enough mass or energy passed the 200 yard marker. Yes, some hunters can get lucky but a mature bull elk is big and can soak up a lot of lead and energy......they don't want to quite living even when hit hard. The .270 caliber causes even the experienced hunter to many limitations on the hunt, meaning distance, no raking or quartering shots, no going away shots etc. Smaller bullets hitting big bone can do crazy things, like go off track, traveling rearward instead of straight through the vitals like the lungs etc.
I have used several smaller calibers on elk in past years but the hunter must realize their limits and that of the caliber he or she is using. Now last year I was presented with a great broadside presentation and got a bull with a 25/06 and 120 grain premium bullet. I got lucky even though I placed the shot perfectly because a big bull will usually trot off through the dark timber over the mountain and they can travel 5 mph with a front leg shot off and a bullet in the boiler room to boot. I have never in all my years, just dropped an elk in it's tracks. I have never been that lucky. It is twice as easy to kill a cow or young bull than a mature racked bull!
A heavy mature bull elk really needs a minium diameter of .308 caliber and bullet weight of 180 grains in a caliber like a 30-06 so says Gen. Craig Boddington. I'll stop short of a 7mm mag with a 175 grain premium bullet......now your cooking with gas as my Pappy would say. The 7mm mag with a 175 grain bullet will penetrate much deeper than a .270 with it's 150 grain bullet. This will afford you more of a chance just in case that bull is not giving you the perfect position and that seldom happens anyway. I was once told by a very good elk hunter years ago, that a caliber for elk need to be 200 grains or larger bullet and deliver over 1500 lbs of energy to the animal. Thus one of the reasons I use a .338 magnum as my personal elk rifle, along with a .338/06 that weighs under 7-lbs, as a backup for higher elevations and hunting the dark timber with it's shorter barrel.
You can use your 1/2 ton pickup truck to pull a trailer and bobcat (total weight around 7500 to 8500 lbs) but you won't due it very long before you drop the tranny or peel the teeth off the gears in the ring and pinion. The .270 caliber is an excellent rifle caliber for game under 350 pounds, NOT animals that will venture as high as 800 to a 1000 pounds on the hoof. Elmer Keith said it best "Bigger Is Always Better" especially on larger big game animals such as a big bull. The odds of being successful going after a big bull are in your favor with a bigger caliber than a .270, which was developed for deer size game.
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Gunrunner
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Posted: 10 July 2005 07:09 PM |
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Thanks for the information LilMag. I guess I was thinking of perfect bullet placement, and not the normal situations with quartering or going away shots. In those instances and at longer ranges I can see the need for more mass in the bullet. Especially for a mature bull. In my area I'll probably get a cow tag as not so many guys put in for those. They all want the large racks. Me, I want the meat.
If I ever get an elk tag I hope I own a 7mm, 300 or 338 by then. I also hope I get a perfect shot, preferably at close range. May not happen, but I can hope. 
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LilMag
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Posted: 11 July 2005 04:18 PM |
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Gunrunner!..........In all my years of hunting, I have come to rely on the best bullets I can possibly put into my rifle's magazine when going after big game animals like elk. NO, you certainly don't have to have a 300 Win mag to kill an elk but if you got your hands on a good 30-06 with a premium bullet weighing 180 grains or 200 grains, your setup is sure to let you harvest that bull, given you get the shot OK.
Seldom does the hunter get the perfect talked about shots you might read about in a gunrag or hear talked about in the local barber shop. You most certainly can kill elk, moose etc with a smaller caliber but it limits your percentage odds a great deal. I have seen more elk killed with a 7mm mag and 30-06 caliber than I have with any of those bigger magnums. Most of those rifles had shorter (24 inch) barrels to boot! If I had but one rifle caliber only to pick from in my gunrack, it would be no doubt be the 338/06 because of it's light weight, short 23 inch barrel and the fact it drives a 250 grain slug, who's sectional density (penetration ability) is a whopping .312
However, by all means choose a well constructed bullet and rifle caliber you can place 3 shots from a rest into a 8 inch circle at 300 yards. You will then, the good LORD willing, have elk steaks for supper. Good Luck on your elk hunt in the future!
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bullet
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| Joined: | 25 March 2005 |
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Posted: 12 July 2005 12:47 AM |
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I figure this will get the job done ! It a 30-338 win mag ! 29 inch shilen match barrel . Timney trigger - glass bedded ! The scope is a 6x24x50 .  Enjoy Bullet
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Timberghozt
Board Founder
| Joined: | 11 February 2005 |
| Location: | Salado, Texas USA |
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Posted: 14 July 2005 02:10 AM |
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That oughta do it for sure bullet.I did some shooting with a custom built 308 Norma Mag and it is mighty derend close to that 30-338 Mag.I really liked the 308 Norma.It is a good hard hitting .30
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bullet
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Posted: 14 July 2005 06:28 AM |
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| Hey Ghozt , if'en your looking for a nice 308 norma mag let me know , I just picked on up ! Regards Bullet !
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LilMag
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Posted: 14 July 2005 02:16 PM |
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Now that is a nice rifle Bullet!........You must be hunting those elk far off out youndar way as my Pappy would say!
The kind of country I hunt in that long barrel would be your attention real quick like on those low hanging limbs in the dark timber. I much perfer a smaller and lighter scope also, more in the 2 x 7 range for less weight and more field of view in that dim heavy timber. Most of those shots are under a 100 yards and standing on a hillside fit for a mountain goat, I like my rifle to be as light as possible.
I do have a rifle somewhat similar to yours I made into a wildcat. It is a .338/300Ultra mag and boy I mean to tell you, it dishes out punishment on both ends of that rifle by golly. However, it is not or better yet, I am NOT as accurate with it as my 300 Ultra mag shooting 180 grain Nosler Accubond bullets.
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Gunrunner
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Posted: 15 July 2005 12:37 PM |
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| Nice rifle Bullet. I bet it does great at long range. (Nice stack of wood too.)
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bullet
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Posted: 18 July 2005 08:12 AM |
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| Yes , I had it built for doing some long range blasting - More for moose was on my mind . My gunsmith figures it will shoot 600 yds . all day long . I have changed the scope since The photo - it was a 6x24x50 it was to much scope in the timber . I have backed off to a 4x12x40 and its working out nice . I'm throwing 150.gr Bond core bullet out at 3574 fps . average . Groups well I have to work on them a bit 3 shots and you can cover them with a quarter . I work on it some more ! Regards Bullet . yes that wood pile is nice wood - heat with it. thats cheap !
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GooseHunter Jr
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| Joined: | 29 August 2005 |
| Location: | Colorado USA |
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Posted: 29 August 2005 09:03 PM |
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| I personally like my .338 Win Mag with 225 grain Accubonds!
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Texasdoc
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| Joined: | 5 April 2005 |
| Location: | LaGrange, Texas USA |
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Posted: 30 August 2005 12:49 AM |
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well this is my Elk killing rifle and I hope to build a new one soon.
Doc
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saddlesore
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| Joined: | 6 February 2005 |
| Location: | Colorado Springs, Colorado USA |
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Posted: 30 August 2005 07:28 PM |
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I have shot a lot of elk with a lot of different calibers. Big bulls, small bulls, and cows. Th last time I added them up it was over 35. I have only lost one elk and that was because it turned around and went the opposite way as the rest of the elk( Shot with a 7 mag). Poor tracking on my part when I was younger. My longest tracking job was a bull hit with a 7 mag about 20 years ago. It was a quartering shot as he was coming towards me and it only clipped a lung. After those two experiences, I finally learned that it isn't the gun, or the caliber, but the quality of hunter using it.
I prefer the 220 gr RN in an .06, because I hunt in heavy timber mostly, but I did kill a fairly nice bull and a cow within a minute of each other ( we were allowed two tags that year) at a lasered 347 yards. So it will reach out there. Both elk fell over on the spot. I have very rarely had elk go more than 25 yds, no matter what I hit them with.
Big bull elk are no tougher to kill than small cows if you hit them right, and I don't do shoulder shots. A hunter needs to be able to pass up those questionable shots and leave the Texas Hearts shots go. Big boomers do not make up for poor shot placement, as neither do super duper premium bullets. I don't care if a person spends $6K on a hunt or not and it's a once in a lifetime hunt. If it isn't a good shot, pass on it.
So far my elk kills have been with .308, 30-.06, 7 mag, 45-70, 6.5 swede, 50 cal muzzle loader, and .270. I can say from my experience, none died any better than the other. This year I am using a Marlin 44 Mag Model 94 stoked with 240 gr Speer bullets and H110, in the timber and my .06 when I'm hunting open country for a day or so.
I see a lot of non residenst here in Colorado every year. A lot of them have the .338's, 300's etc. but most of those guys are with outfitters. I don't know why there is a connection, but the guys I see go home every year with elk are from Minnasota, Wisconsin, Pensylvania, etc.. They are died in the wool whiteail hunters. Most are packing a .308 or 30.06
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Rob
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| Joined: | 15 February 2005 |
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Posted: 31 August 2005 01:45 AM |
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I've killed two raghorns and one 5 point with a .270. I really don't feel under gunned
when I'm hunting with it. Some of the arguements for larger caliber makes sense but when it's all said and done the end result has been the same from my vantage point. If I'm on a elk only hunt sometimes I'll choose a larger cartridge but a lot of times I had been hunting deer and stumbled on to some elk and felt just fine with the .270.
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