miestro_jerry
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He was in the Quarter Master part of the Corps? :)
Jerry
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klallen
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evening gentlemen, this is a great string. i gave my 1st response back in june of 2005. neat to see it still being hashed about.
as mentioned way back then, i to am a fan of the larger .30 cal cartridges. my preference tends toward a 200 accubond in the 7.82warbird and back then, it was the cartridge carried when i did elk hunt.
since, i had a dedicated elk rifle built around the .358 shooting times alaskan. went out and bought an elk hunt so i could give it test-run on that size animal. if i waited for my name to come up at the drawing for the area i'd like, i'd still be waiting to get the gun on elk. as it played out, the cartridge and rifle pleased me in every phase of performance. swift a-frames don't necessarily have the most glowing reputation for accuracy, but the 280's have really impressed. hard hitting. reasonably flat shooting. this heavy for cal bullet / cartridge combo has shown me things at 400 yds. i originally never considered requiring from the rifle. it's just an outstanding cartridge capable of handling much larger quary then elk. i love it to death.
today i certainly would not feel unprepared if i had to have the warbird in hand hunting elk but with the sta in the safe, i've pulled back the bullet weight in the warbird and kept it shouldering duties as my longer range deer cartridge. and boy, how it shines at that task.
anyhoo, title of the string was "ultimate elk cartridge". for my money, it was (in 2005) and still is (in 2009) my .358sta.
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DesertMarine
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The Rifleman magazine has an article on the new Barrett rifle in 338 Lapua. Interesting story. For elk, I'll stick to 270, 30-06 or 300 WinMag, in dark timber probably a 30-30.
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sako06
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I'm a life member & read that article. Our friend in Pa(ex usmc force recon ) told me about http://www.rwhart.com rifles that he's test fired,he said hart builds them for usmc and has a new one with extreme long distance accuracy .
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DesertMarine
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Hart has been making great barrels and rifles for some time. For a rebarrel, hard decision to make between Hart and Krieger barrels.
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klallen
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come on, d m . that's an easy decision. you go with lilja.
sorry, couldn't resist. a montana guy is gonna opt for a big name, montana barrel maker, though.
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DesertMarine
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Nothing wrong with Lilja, excellent barrels. Marines use Hart barrels on their sniper rifles, so got to go with my brothers.
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sako06
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That's what our friend says .He remembers his 1/4 sawn stocked remington mod 40 and thinks it had a unertyl scope.He said the second time he was wounded (abdominal)someone grabbed his rifle as he was waiting to be medic evacted and that's the last time he saw it.
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klallen
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DesertMarine wrote: Nothing wrong with Lilja, excellent barrels. Marines use Hart barrels on their sniper rifles, so got to go with my brothers.
morning d m . hart is used on marine sniper rifles? exclusively? i've never heard such a thing but i don't have a lot of marines running in my shooting circle, either. never thought they'd be able to use their personal equipment. i guess i assumed military issue type stuff, incorrectly, it looks like. is that a contract thing? or just follow what the marine before did?
very interesting.
from what i've heard, hart makes a fine barrel, too.
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sako06
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These aren't personal rifles, these are U.S. Gov't issue.Hart has a contract to make sniper rifles for the military services. Last edited on Fri Mar 20th, 2009 02:27 PM by sako06
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DesertMarine
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As far as I know, Hart barrels are the only ones used in Marine sniper rifles. Don't know about Army or SEAL rifles. We are fortunate in that there are a lot of excellent choices in barrel makers. Hard decision is do you want , button barrelled, cut-rifling, broach barrelling or hammer forging.
Some years ago some guys were developing a 409 Cheyenne Tactical round and rifle. Initital work looked great as being better than a 50 BMG. Anybody heard anything about it? That would be an awesome elk cartridge.
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klallen
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figured it had something to do with military contracts, sako.
the chey-tac is a solid case design, but the cartridge is horribly hampered by the lack of quality bullets. it's my understanding the lathe turned solids designed for the round are the weak link.
my bro has been working with the case for a while now as the base for some of his wildcat cartridges and some custom uld's out of canada in the .338 and .375 caliber class. very impressive results. you put a quality bullet on top of that much powder and chambered it in a rifle expressly designed for accuracy in excess of 3000+ yd., it's proven to be very impressive.
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sako06
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another rifle and ammo source is http://www.z-hat.com which would make an excellent elk cartridge using standard brass like 30-06 but with the performance of a magnum Last edited on Sat Mar 21st, 2009 01:18 AM by sako06
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sako06
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my sakos are hammer forged and accurate
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hwy40
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The 408 Chey Tac is a wildcat based on the 505 Gibbs. They cut it down and improved the shoulder. The 416 grain, lathe turned bullets net a B.C. of .900 or better, making it a great extreme range round. Black Diamond rifles wildcatted the 408 and offers rifles in 338, 375, and 416. They call them snipe-tac cartridges.
On the original topic, I think that the "Ultimate" elk cartridge is the one that you can shoot effectively. For some that means a 375 H&H, for others it is a 243. I would lean towards a 30-06 for all around hunting, a 300 WBY for long range open terrain and a 338 win mag for dark timber. Those are the choices I have made here in Colorado.
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sako06
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My choices for Colorado were Sako Finnbear in 30-06 & Sako Finnsport in 300wm using my handloads.
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Irish Mike
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Klallen....It is somewhat interesting that you built a .358STA, I have been looking over the caliber for the last couple of months now. My heart leans to the .338 caliber in form of a .378 Weatherby case but just am not sure as of yet.
I have a .375 Weatherby in a model 70 Wincheser but that is NO long range tool by far and is a little heavy for mountain toting for elk savvy.
However, I did put a little model 70 Winchester together and it won't break your jaw or rattle the fillings lose in you teeth by golly. It is a .338-06, which by the way is only about 120fps slower than the original .338 Win mag. The bullet of choice is the 210 grian Nosler Partition or 200 grain Accubond by Nosler. Now that bullet has a .400 BC for down range flying and little loss of energy. Sectional Density is a very good .263 for penetration sake on game.
You couple this with a velocity of almost 2700fps with a 210 grain bullet and it is no slow poke in the dark timber or open plains. If you want more velocity yet, hook up with the 180 grain Nosler and get 2950fps not bad A-Tall folks. Simply put, it will do anything it's big brothers will do on game the size of elk out to 300 yards. All this in a Winchester model 70 featherweight that weighs in at under 7-lbs with a rifle scope. 
Last edited on Tue Mar 31st, 2009 04:24 PM by
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klallen
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Irish Mike wrote: Klallen....It is somewhat interesting that you built a .358STA, I have been looking over the caliber for the last couple of months now.
the sta has been a pet cartridge almost from the moment simpson introduced it. flat shooting. hard hitting. not everyone has one. lots of things going for it. i toyed with the idea for a time of a .358 cartridge on the full length rum case but in the end felt the sta would serve my purpose just fine.
i don't mind the .338 class. had a .338kahn that i enjoyed a great deal. used it with 300smk's while extreme range shooting. great cartridge with some wonderful performance in the right rifle. but to this point, have bypassed the class all together for big game hunting. with the warbird and the sta in the safe, i kinda have the low and top end of what the .338 class has to offer covered so it kinda turns the .338's into one of those tweener classes. nice cartridges available, for sure, but no real benefit to me right now.
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Irish Mike
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Ultmate Caliber You Say! Actually the ultimate to me is in being successful and bringing home the elk steaks savvy. You can purchase a shoulder cannon in various Ultra magnum calibers but that sure isn't medicine for success necessarily, while trying to kill an elk with your rifle of choice.
One needs a caliber that is going to let you be accurate first of all, at the distance you have set as a MAX yardage point for shooting said animal. Obviously shooting something with more felt recoil than a hunter can be accurate with down range, is not the answer in my book.
Yes, I know we have muzzle brakes and extra shoulder pads to, not to mention the various recoil pads for the butt of that rifle. Muzzle brakes leave a lot to be desired, they are very loud and always the chance of hurting your ears or someone elses. I like a rifle that is light to carry in those mountains and shoots well to 300 yards going after elk.
I have had those big mags and long range shooters too! They never once let me be able to say in all honesty, they were the "best" over calibers like the 30-06 or 7mm mag. Recoil wise I believe that unless your are a very tolerate person shooting at the bench, best NOT go the route of the Ultra Mag or some custom shoulder cannon caliber you can't hit a bucket with at 300 or 400 yards. Hunters beware of the hunter who is totting a .270 Winchester with Nosler partition bullets in those 160 grn weight, he may know something you don't about elk. 
I
Last edited on Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 08:08 PM by
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sako06
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A San Carlos Apache guide told me he always hunts elk with his 270 using 130gr ammo he buys at wallmart but always hits them in the neck ruining very little meat.BTW San Carlos has a very well managed elk herd with bulls in the B&C high 300's into the 400's. This year a Chairmans Elk Trophy tag sold for $75K,6 trophy bull tags sold for $30K apiece and they have 30 anterless tags in 2 locations for $620 each. Bear,Coues Deer,Antelope,Turkery To check their site go to http://scatrwd.com/Hunting_Schedule.html http://www.apacheoutdoors.com This year I applied for an anterless tag at the Hilltop location,I hunted the Dry lake area several years ago & was successful. Last edited on Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 09:24 PM by sako06
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