| Posted: Mon Jun 20th, 2005 02:56 AM |
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Timberghozt
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For you fellas who hunt elk. What is the ultimate elk cartridge in your opinion?I figured that any of the .30 large cartridges would be very popular,but what do you fellas see used most often?
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20th, 2005 04:15 AM |
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saddlesore
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Probably the most prevalent are the .06, 7 mag and 300 mag. My choice is the .06. I have used the other two, and finally decided I didn't need to punish myself with the recoil, as the .06 does the job just fine.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20th, 2005 11:59 AM |
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Timberghozt
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Hey Saddlesore.The old 06 has a place just about anywhere with big game hunting.Do you see many 30-30`s anymore in the elk woods?With all these Wizzim cartridges nowadays many of the old cartridges appear to be falling to the wayside.Unfortunately many folks listen to paper ballistics in advertising and forget the old flatnose 30-30 killed many a pound of table fare..
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20th, 2005 05:34 PM |
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bea175
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Timber i believe the 338 Rem Ultra Mag is the best round you can use for Elk. The recoil is over stated and most can master it with a little practice . Just don't listen to all the hype about how bad they kick. It shoots as flat as most 30 cal and packs a lot more punch when it get there. I love 338 cal rifles and the elk hate them. With that said , i carry the lightest rifle i can find, regardless of cal and the good old 30-06 is hard to beat with 180 gr Part if you don't care for the big boomers.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20th, 2005 06:56 PM |
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saddlesore
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Timberghotz I don't see many 30-30, except for some old fellows. I'll be using a 44 mag carbine in the thick timber and blow down this year.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20th, 2005 10:41 PM |
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Texasdoc
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I have taken Elk with a 270 up to a 375 H&H mag and I prefer a 300 Win mag.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21st, 2005 03:30 AM |
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saddlesore
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I have shot elk with a .308. 30-.06, 7mag, 300 mag, 45-70, 50 cal muzzle loader, and probably a few I can't remember. Seems to me they all died about the same. A lot have died with the .270 cartridge, but I think a person has to watch which bullets are used with it. A 6.5 X57 and a 7x57 will do the job also. It's not so much as what cartridge you hit them with, but where you place the bullet assuming you are not rahing out there hundreds of yards. One of the biggets elk I have ever seen taken was with an old .06 in the military 03 with ladder sights. The elk was a true 600 yds, but the old guy shot a lot of NRA matches with the same rifle. This was + 45 years ago, and hunters were a bit more able to judge distance than todays hunters that have to have range finders.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21st, 2005 12:17 PM |
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Timberghozt
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Thanks for the replies fellas.Beam that 338 RUM sounds like it is right at home in elk country and should be very effective even with shoulder shots.Hey saddlesore,I agree with that about putting the bullet in the right place and most any of those listed will be effective..
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21st, 2005 02:43 PM |
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LilMag
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In my years of elk hunting, I have seen many calibers taken to the highcountry, from a 25-06 to the 375H&H. Now most guides I been with on outfitted hunts, favored the 7mm magnum for the reason that they could shoot it very accurately and make that shot the client did not. Most of the older guides used the 175 grain bullets in the magazine too!
I started my elk hunting witha 300 win mag, after using a 30-06 for a few years deer hunting etc. I totted that 300 mag around for over 20 years! It was one whale of a caliber back then and still is today in my humble opinion. I mean you got to rise up awful early, to outshine that 180 grain bullet going 3140 fps from my handloads. Nonetheless, It is still very shootable for those that have experience in shouldering a caliber with that kind of felt recoil, something like 6 to 10 more pounds of recoil than a 30-06 with heavy loads.
However, over the last 10 years of so, many of todays experienced elk hunters are more apt to have a .338 Win mag at their side as not. It gives the hunter physical evidence when the elk is struck with one of those 225 or 250 grain bullets. You also don't have to worry about which way that bull elk is facing to bring him down flat on the ground. Those .338 caliber bullets, penetrate deep from any angle.
Now before anybody wants to chew me up and spit me out, I just want to say that I am in NO WAY selling the Old Soldier "30-06" caliber short for elk hunting. I have seen what that caliber can do also in the hands of a skilled shooter, far past any 200 yard marker mind you with a 180 grain Nosler bullet to boot.
Yes, I realize that we now have those Ultra mags and several wildcats also, that can tag a target way down range if you have a mind too do so but elk hunting is more than just squeezing the trigger and hitting what your aiming at down range. Those Ultra mags give a fella a heck of a jolt to the body and will loosen your fillings too. So my big complaint about all that extra Smackem or Knockdown Power is simply seldom is the shooter able to handle it and be near as accurate, as with those lesser power calibers.
I have a 300 Ultra mag and a wildcat also from the same case. A .338/300Ultra that holds about 5 more grains of powder than a .338-Ultra mag. However, the 60 pounds of felt recoil that the shooter will soon feel after squeezing the trigger, is not worth the lack of accuracy downrange when comparing it to a 300 win mag, 7mm win mag or the tried and true 30-06 my friends of the forum. So I'll sum this up by saying my Ultimate Elk caliber is the plain Jane .338 Win mag or 300 Win mag! However, you really don't need the "ultimate" to be successful hunting elk, when you have a 7mm mag or 30-06 in your hands.
Last edited on Tue Jun 21st, 2005 03:07 PM by
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21st, 2005 03:06 PM |
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bea175
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Lilmag you are right on the money, i have killed elk with 06 and the 338 UM and the 338-06 Ack and the 338 UM was the most impressive, one shot and down without hardley a kick. He wasn't asking what would kill a elk ,most any cal will if you place the shot perfect. He was asking what is the best cal for killing elk, big difference.
338 Ultra Mag is the King
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21st, 2005 03:27 PM |
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LilMag
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"What do you fella's see used most often" It's a toss up between the 300 win mag, 7mm win mag, .338 win mag and the 30-06! There ain't no better way to slice up the pie Gents!!!
"What is the Ultitmate Elk caliber"?.........In my humble opinion the .338 Win mag with 250 grain premium bullet. It is a rock solid 400 yard caliber, when using a 300 yard zero (11 low @ 400yds) for killing elk and it Smacks em hard to the ground. In the dark timber it really shines for those close encounters too.
Now if Yall want to redefine the word "ultimate", I reckon my trusty .475 caliber with a 600 grain bullet, would sure anchor one of those highcountry critters in a big hurry but then again I don't think many would want to carry that shoulder cannon over mountain benches all day long either. I hope this clears up the bit of
Jim Dandy rifle for a South-Paw!
Last edited on Tue Jun 21st, 2005 03:32 PM by
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21st, 2005 05:17 PM |
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bea175
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When hunting in Colorado , i see mostly 7mm Mags and 30-06's because i hunt on public land and most prople from the east that head west and hunt public land are on a tight budget and use what they hunt whitetail deer with. I am one of the exceptions, i could afford a guided hunt but don't like the idea of being lead around by a guide telling you when to shoot and when to load your rifle , take your time hold steady , you get what i'm trying to say. I just prefer doing it on my own. I hunt whitetail deer with the 338 UM. The last buck i killed with was 425 yards on the laser range finder, 200 gr Nosler BT , Rel 22 , it never moved out of its tracks straight down . I gave my 338 Win Mag to my son when i decide to go with 338 UM. if i have any complains about it, is i wish it weight was a couple of pounds lighter , i could stand the extra recoil to have less weight to carry because anyone who elk hunts knows you carry a lot more than you shoot. I built the 338-06 Ack so i would have a powerful cal for elk that didn't weight so much.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22nd, 2005 12:19 PM |
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Timberghozt
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I really enjoy readimg you fellas opinions on this.Lil Mag,I am a devoted 300 Win Mag fan.It is the first cartridge I started with at reloading and I still like it as much as the first time I shot it.I`ve never been elk hunting but one of these days I will pack up my rifle and stuff and head north to try it..
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"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22nd, 2005 01:33 PM |
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MBPG
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I would have to go along with Win 300 mag also.
We went moose hunting last fall and my buddy spotted one
and I told him I'd take the first shot,which was across a large gravel pit about a 5oo yrd. shot,cart. was 150 gr win. with the scope I aimed just below its chin,and fired,down it went,we run to see where he disappeared to.It had fallen down this enbankment and I hit that bull under its right eye,never knew what hit em.
I swear by the 300 mags. I'm hooked !!!!!!!
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22nd, 2005 01:53 PM |
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LilMag
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Beal-175, I did the same thing with a model 70 Winchester featherweight a few years ago, cause LORD have mercy~! I noticed that I was packing more weight around my belt line than I really wanted going into that highcountry.
So we just pulled the old 30-06 barrel off the model 70 and replaced it with a new one in the .338 caliber and went to using 225 grain Swift A Frame bullets. Now under 250 yards, I can dare say it will kill em just as well as the .338 mag!
Not to mention that being a pound and a half lighter than my regular elk rifle, is a joy to an Old Buzzard walking up a mountain bench to snuff out elk. It gives off less recoil too!
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22nd, 2005 02:09 PM |
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LilMag
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Timberghotz.......A couple of years ago I got off on a quest to get myself a long range elk rifle that could knock em down at 600 yards~! Well, I have come to my sences I suppose after building that wildcat that loosened up the silver on top my jawbones.
Yep, I got the 300-Ultra Mag and it is a Jim Dandy rifle no doubt about it whatsoever. I even went the route of the wildcat .338/300-Ultra but we got to a point that bench shooting it for zero was a nightmare in degise so to speak, at least after a half dozen rounds fired. I have NO muzzle brake on this rifle OK. Now being 60 years old is no math match up for firing a rifle with 60 pounds of felt recoil let me tell up front.
So after my short trip down the yellow brick road, one of the wee little people just whispered in my ear and said " Why Laddy, You got the best rifle caliber you could ever want in that old 300 Win mag" I thanked him kindly and got a smile on my face afterwards. I think sometimes we all sooner or later will venture down that yellow brick road, then come full circle to what we seemed to forget, was the very thing we were looking for in the first place and not more than an arms length away in the gun cabinet during that time of want.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22nd, 2005 02:47 PM |
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klallen
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Elk hunting has always been kind of an after-thought for me. I tend to put all my time into Mule Deer, leaving little time left in a season for elk. As of late, that's kinda changes. I would like to have a big one to my credit. I've yet to draw a tag for the area I want, but have found time to get out a couple times hunting spikes there. No success. I don't know about either of these being the "ultimate" elk cartridge, but when I was out, the 7.82 Warbird was what I had with me. I figure a 200 gr. AccuBond would do just fine. On any future hunts for elk, I'll have my .358 STA with me. Really like to see what a 280 gr. A-Frame would do. >> klallen
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22nd, 2005 07:38 PM |
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saddlesore
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Lilmag. I have a few years on you, but also went down that road for avery short period of time. When you start gettting those arthritus spurs in you shoulder and every shot feels like someone drove a pole barn spike though your shoulder, you start to believe that .06 or even .308's are just the ticket for elk.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 02:26 PM |
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LilMag
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Saddlesore, I got a big smile on my face from reading your post! Yep, I reckon sooner or later we all have to deal with the effects of life's mistakes hammering us from years past. I remember once talking to an Ole Gent about elk hunting and asked what he had been using the past years. He turned around and grabbed a very well used (worn stock & dull barrel ) pre-64 model 70 Winchester down from behind the counter. My eyes popped out when I was trying to read the caliber designation on the barrel.
The Old Cowboy with, with weather worn face, totting a handlebar mushtache soon let me know that it was a .243 caliber, which had taken over a 1500 pdogs and a truck load of coyotes as well. I was also told that he had 27 elk to his credit with that rifle. He then pointed to the 6 x 6 bull on the wall across the other side of the room. So I guess you can't agrue with success in that respect. If I am not mistaken, Mr. Gritts Grissom wrote an article about this fella sometime ago.
I'll be trying out a new rifle this coming elk season in the form of a .264 caliber! It is a wildcat using a 160 grain bullet, sitting on a 300WSM case and the 3 shot groups settling in at right at .786", while flying to the tune of 2800fps. The sectional density is a whopping .328! Now hows that for penetration on elk standing in black timber?
Oh yeah! The recoil (21 pounds felt recoil) is like kissing a baby on the cheek LOL. If I put on the PAST RECOIL PAD, the recoil is cut down to 11 pounds felt recoil, which is like shooting a .243 with 100 grain bullet.
Last edited on Fri Jun 24th, 2005 02:38 PM by
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 06:37 PM |
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Mickey Rat
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For those of you sighting in the big boomers...a tip:
Go to Wal-Mart and buy a gel bicycle seat cover. It costs about 10.00 and will tame the big boomers at the bench. My son came up with the ideal. It is absolutely amazing. I fire a 45-70 Siamese Mauser with loads in the 458 MAG range, and it sure helps me.
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