| Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 02:35 AM |
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barebackpat
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Korey i agree, with the changing seasons i hve also got a little more gun with me on a serious hunt. I USED to shoot a 22-250 most ofthe time. No matter whta i was after. But now i usually reach for my 257 stw or my 30-378 weatherby. just because it always seems the if you have a little more gun your odds increas. And to get the job done you have to be willing to reahc out and touch something. This years elk hunt is a good example. 5 of us left on a stock. Two of us had elkl dead where they stood, my wife with my stw and me with my weatherby mag. There was a 7 mag, 308,and a 41 mag lever gun. They all came up short of the challenge on that day. And the guy with the 7 mag shot 12 times, never touching anythign. And That is how it played out for us. Just For the record i live pretty close too Where Korey Does in the great state of montana
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 02:57 AM |
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22nd Post |
Charley
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Korey, I don't consider the topic BS, nor do I figure your hunting conditions to be anywhere near what they are down in this part of the world. The BS part is for the fat assed, once-a-year shooter who pays big bucks for a trophy buck. Many, many stories about looooong shots down a sendero in the South Texas brush country, most of the stories are not true.
Don't mean to paint with quite so broad a brush.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2009 03:04 PM |
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klallen
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Understood, Charley.
Ya know, I hear all this talk about how close range hunting is the norm for the vast majority of the hunters out there. Funny thing is, I'm dying to be able to use some of the revolvers I 've bought over the years on game. I do have one with me on occasion (along with a rifle) in hopes of having a close quarters ambush type encounter but over the last several years, I have had two instances where an animal has come within handgun range, and of course, the handgun's not with me then. 
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 02:46 AM |
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24th Post |
Timberghozt
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Dont sell a 7 mag short bud..The last doe I shot a few weeks back I shot on the move at 425 yards..
She was hit high in the spine and crippled trting to crawl.
I threw the bolt and blew her heart out with the second shot.,.
It aint about power and flat shooting..
I`ve seen ,more than one 30-06 shooter that can hammer down at 600 plus yards
Yeah I shoot big 30 cal magnums too..But if you cant shoot,don`t savvy ballistics and range..
Its worthless...
Korey the man I work for was sitting in the blind with me that evening..
He said "Gene I cant even see that far"
We shoot long distance too bud down on these winter wheat fields on occasion.
I like long shots,...,100-200-300 yards blah blah blah..
I can hit that all derned day..
Thats why I build custom rifles and sit on my bench loading all the damned time.
I like to be able to reach out and shoot.
My grandfather taught me that way.To be able to hit at long range was the mark of a rifleman.Been striving my whole life for that title.
Maybe one day I will be as good as him but I keep trying...
nothin wrong with being a member of the long range club...
At the Walkin Horse, you`ll shoot 100-200 yard shot unless ya opt for a long shot on on of the ranch roads..There ya could get into 400 up to 1000 plus yards across a canyon..
The winds whip through these hill country valleys hard..It`d be damned difficult to connect a 1000 yard shot across 200- 500 feet of elevation drop and raise and hit the hillside on the other side of the valley..
Not impossible but hard...
such is the fun of the challenge though
TG
p.s. some insight into why the7mm Rem Mag will always be on top of the whiz bangs and over bored wonder rounds...
The 7 mm Remington Magnum rifle cartridge was introduced as a commercially available round in 1962,[2] along with the new Remington Model 700 bolt action rifle. It is a member of the belted magnum family that is directly derived from the venerable .375 H&H Magnum.[3] Roy Weatherby modified the H&H cases with a double-rounded "venturi" shoulder and straighter body. The original purpose of the belted magnum concept taken from the .300 H&H and .375 H&H to provide precise control of the head-space, since the sloping shoulders, while easing cartridge extraction, provided poor head-spacing. Improved cartridge extraction reliability is desirable while hunting dangerous game, which would be of concern when needing a fast followup shot. The 7mm Rem is based on the commercial Winchester .264 Win Mag, .338 Win Mag, and .458 Win Mag, which were based on the same belted .300 H&H and .375 H&H cases, trimmed to nearly the same length as the .270 Wby Mag.[4]
The 7 mm Remington Magnum offers ballistics superior to the .30-06 Springfield with all equivalent bullet weights, the most popular load being a 160 grain spitzer loaded to 3000 ft/s. This cartridge is capable of taking any game in North America, although one may do well to select a larger caliber for big bears.[5] The 7 mm Remington Magnum also generates the heaviest recoil that many shooters can shoot well, having recoil comparable to the .30-06 Springfield, in contrast to the heavier recoil generated from more powerful magnum rounds such as the .338 Lapua Magnum. Because of this, the 7 mm Remington Magnum is especially popular for Western plains use in the United States, as well as for use on the African plains on non-dangerous game, where longer reach than commonly achieved with the .30-06 are most often needed. The US Secret Service counter-sniper team has also deployed this cartridge in urban areas, in specially modified rifles, and its use out to 1,000 yards has been commonly demonstrated in competition.
The choice of bullet made when reloading is critical, as the velocity of bullets at unintentionally close ranges may result in a less tough bullet disintegrating without providing significant penetration on especially tough game. The choice of barrel length is also critical, as a 26 or 27 inch barrel is commonly needed to achieve the full velocity potential of the cartridge. In shorter, i.e., sporter, barrels, of approximately 22 inches, the cartridge ballistics deteriorate to much the same as achieved in a .270 Winchester, while having the apparent muzzle blast increased relative to that seen even with a 7 mm Remington Magnum fired from a longer barrel, and while generating much the same heavy recoil as experienced in shooting a 7mm Remington Magnum from a longer barrel. Used with a 26 or 27 inch barrel, though, the true benefit of the cartridge over the .30-06 and .270 Winchester becomes apparent.
On its introduction, the 7mm Rem. Mag. substantially usurped the market share held by the .264 Winchester Magnum, which went into sharp decline in popularity and sales after 1962.[6] Maximum pressure is set by SAAMI at 61,000 PSI.[2]
Remington has recently offered Managed Recoil ammunition for achieving reduced recoil when shooting and for generating less meat damage when hunting smaller game.
Popular web gun author Chuck Hawks calls the 7mm Rem one of the great all-around rifle cartridges.[7]
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31st, 2009 02:57 AM |
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25th Post |
TCA4570
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None of those are legal in Ohio.
Might need to add shotgun and ml as 11 and 12.
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Dirtkicker
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Seems like a little confusion in this poll. Are we voting for the cartridge that we think has accounted for more deer than any other, or for the cartridge that we personally feel in the best all-around deer round? They're not the same things.
The .30-30 is a great old standby and deserving of respect, but in comparison with modern cartridges it is a poor thing indeed.
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Timberghozt
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Let me clear it up a little.
When I asked what you thought was the ultimate whitetailed cartridge ever created.
I didn`t mean,
The one every Joe has in his gun cabinet or the one that "has killed more deer than any other"
I meant the one you think has all the attributes that make it a primo venado killer.
Things such as energy,range,bullet selection,affordability(if you don`t handload),acceptable recoil(a unbraked 30-378 Roy is not acceptable in my opinion ),ease of finding ammunition and diversity meaning being made in many different models by different manufacturers..
etc..etc
Sorry gents,for some a 30-30 is just the ticket..
Like Korey I will routinely shoot at distances that would be extremely hard for a 30-30.
I am sorry fellas, the iron sight 30-30 old 94 Winchester that was my father`s wedding present from my Grandfather sitting in my gun cabinet,cannot and will not compete with my 25-06 at 400 yards.
Sure a masterful shot with a 30-30 could lob one 400 yards...
but it aint happening like it does with my 25-06,308,my 270,my 30-06,my 6mm,7mm mag,My 300 Mag,my 7x57,my 223 Rem even..
Not downing the old classic 30-30 at all.
just saying,it is not and cannot be ideal for many of us who don`t hunt the eastern US and short shots in the hardwoods.
If I sat on a deer feeder at 100 yards ,yeah its plenty..
but a lot of us don`t and we use the extra range afforded us by modern cartridges that shoot at 30-06 velocities and more..
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Dirtkicker
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"I meant the one you think has all the attributes that make it a primo venado killer."
Gotcha.
For me, then, it would have to be an ought-six. Hands down. YMMV, but the venerable '06 (basically only 11 years younger than the .30-30) has it all. Whatever the size or (reasonable) range of the deer, the '06 can bring it home. Ammo is available everywhere. For handloading it has the widest variety of bullet weights and styles of any cartridge. Every maker makes one, or two, or more.
I just don't understand how the treinta-treinta can be leading the ought-six by two to one. Don't make no sense no how. But then, like gets messy from time to time, so I will continue to sleep well.
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stevekoozer
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Man I found this too late to vote. Based on the criteria listed by TG I would have to say it is a toss up between the good old 06 or the 308 ( 7.62x51 if you prefer) Any rifle styles you could want, both have very similar ballistics with 150-165 grain bullets they will both take any deer walking the planet with correct shot placement.
This thread got me thinking on what I have shot deer with since I started hunting those tasty creatures back when I was a young man.
Took me a while thinking way back too my teens but here is what I have killed deer with so far.
220 Swift,243 Win, 6mm Rem, 260 Rem, 280 Rem 30-30, 32 Win Special 38-55 ,308 , 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 35 Whelen 20 and 12 gauge slugs 000 buckshot in the 12 I won't mention the the deer with the pointy sticks as this is a rifle thread. I would sure like to get one with a muzzle loader before I hit the dirt.
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Blackhat
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I suspect the "poll-ets" are viewing the poll in historic terms. At least that is the way it came off to me.
Be that as it may, while there are many, and I mean many, fine cartridges out there, my vote will have to stay with the good old 270 Win. and a good 130gr. to 150gr. bullet. Velocity is great, trajectory is flat, cartridges are everywhere. I believe I read on a Hodgen post somewhere that the 270 Win. is consistantly in the top 3 reloading dies sold. No need to re-invent the wheel for me. Now if the poll was for all-around for North America, I would begrudgingly have to concede to the 30-06 for all of the fore-mentioned reasons and then some.
Last edited on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 01:21 PM by Blackhat
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12th, 2009 03:21 PM |
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31st Post |
Irish Mike
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I would have to say that the 30-30 has taken more whitetail deer probably than most calibers out there from the time of it's inception. No secret to those states I assume!
I don't believe you can say this or that caliber is the "ULTIMATE" choice because of so many different settings across the USA to begin with and what is duck soup for some is might very well be a egg roll for others simply put.
The .270 Winchester is certainly a highly regarded caliber in places like Texas, Oklahoma and Arkansas believe it or not. Not to mention other places too. One surely would have to consider the all around a few years back, none other than the 30-06 caliber. However, up East way the bell often rings for the .308 caliber. Now with all do respect to those that think some off the wall "Wild-Kitty" should be chosen of is top of the heap, I'll just say I don't think so and leave it at that savvy. There just is NOT in my humble opinion a so called Ultimate Caliber for whitetail deer, at least I don't think so gents. My favorite whitetail deer caliber is the 25/06 using a 120 grain Nosler Partition bullet!
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12th, 2009 06:16 PM |
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32nd Post |
Timberghozt
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I should edit the title of this thread to,"The best whitetailed deer hunting cartridge"
and ADD..If you are going to post in this,give your reasons why you think so.
Not just because every guy that runs down to Walmart in your area grabs a 336 Marlin in 30 WCF and heads out to the woods ,"killing a truckload of deer", or "my old 270 really knocks em down".
I was hoping with the diversity in rifles owned by people on here and the many different chamberings folks here use that we could have somewhat of an educated discussion on the subject of deer hunting chamberings..
Lets see here,
I have a
223 Rem,x2
223 Ack
22-250
243 Win
6mm Rem
25-06 Rem
25-06 Ack
270 Win
7x57mm
7mm Rem Mag
308 WIN X2
30-30 wcf
30-06 x3
300 WIN Mag
32-20 Win(yep it`ll kill deer even with thos little cast bullets)..and shot placement
45-70
and some other chamberings at my disposal..
none are the "ultimate" round
but in my area I hunt , some are standouts..
If you think the 30-30 is the best cartridge for you,so be it..
in my area, shots often require more range,
i.e 25-06,270,30-06, 308..
is a 300 Win Mag the best?
it kills at ranges I couldn`t get with a 30-30..
sorry,but if I see a 160 class buck at 400 yards,I`m gonna shoot..
with a 30-30,I believe I`d get sick to my stomach watching him take off...
as for sporting chances and hunting ethics.If you can`t hit a deer past a hundred yards,so be it..
I can,I do and I will..I believe that a rifleman who kills cleanly at long range is more sporting than some asshole in a enclosed blind blasting the shit out of a deer under a corn feeder at 50 yards..
Just me I guess,but I think its more of a fair match on slightly uneven terms to use a long range approach to hunting...
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"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12th, 2009 07:32 PM |
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33rd Post |
klallen
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before i embarked on the fiasco that would be my winchester laredo's face lift, i'd have offered the 7mmrum as being another viable option as the ultimate deer cartridge. i say deer (in general) cause both our whitetail and mulies run the same areas where we hunt, so while the mulies do tend to average a larger body weight, in the end what works for one, will work just as well on the other. what i like about the 140 gr. accubond in the .280ai (see earlier post) applies for the rum. only with the added umph. we all know lots of things can simply kill deer. so it turns into a choice of cartridges that perform best getting the bullet from a to b for a hunters particular needs. that 140 at 3500 fps is a beautiful thing on the wide open plains. it really is. velocity helps cut drift. from my experience, the bullet weight seems about perfect for large bodied deer, allowing plenty of penetration on all impact angles i'd attempt. work on the rifle now is going into the second year so it's been a while since i've had the rum in the field, but it is a doozey.
i'll end this post as i did an earlier post, though. the question is the ultimate. with that one guideline, give me a :
7.82 WARBIRD
140 @ 3500's nice but 180 @ 3500's reeeaaaal nice. cartridges i love hunting deer with vary a bit but all tend to have a good reputation of reaching out there a ways. preparation is the name of the game, in my opinion. if you know there's a chance on any given day something large will present itself on the far side of what's reasonable for the masses and their small cartridge, you prepare yourself for that. i've often said the cartridge you carry turns you into one of two things when hunting wide open country with no opportunity for a stalk. #1.) a hunter. #2.) a spectator. i love watching big game while pre-season patterning their movements, but once first light of opening day breaks, i'm not a spectator any longer. there's been some side chatter lately about "sniping" as it relates to hunting big game animals and folks taking it upon themselves to define exactly what "hunting" is. the arrogance of this never ceases to amaze me. bottom line is, you hunt with what best affords you the opportunity for quick success. period. for me, "ultimate" as it relates to getting a bullet from point a to b with a minimal amount of fuss is the 7.82 warbird.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 02:25 AM |
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34th Post |
fryboy
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ultimate to me means flat enough shooting but not so much power as to blow up the poor lil critter ,i love my 6.5's even got a couple for knock arounds that i usually have to loan to friends who bring a lil 30-30 out and while thaz fine in the creekbeds( only if the deer would stay in them lolz ) sadly they dont but i dont use my 6.5's for deer too much destruction ( even on a heart shot and we wont talk about one of my buddies gut shot -ewww pure soup)i use a 243 as i have used a 270 with factory rounds both light and heavy and havent had one yet that didnt destroy alot of meat, bloodshot meat aint for me perhaps u others dont mind ...i wish my state would repeal the ban on the .222 for deer after all shot placement matters most and one wont get that flinchin and closing his eyes as he pulls the trigger bracin for the massive recoil i believe the old consensous was use enough gun but not too much , i mite be in the creek bottoms one hour and no tree or anything for miles the next hour that ol 30-30 doesnt get used much tho dad killed deer with it every year
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13th, 2009 03:46 PM |
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35th Post |
Irish Mike
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Fryboy, it sounds like your Daddy knew how to hunt and bring home the bacon so to speak.
Yep, been doing the same old thing with that 1/4 bore (25/06) for the past dozen years are so. Our 30-30 is a loaner gun during the deer season and collects dust other wise.
Now this year it will be my 264/06, (6.5/06) just hate those metric numbers I do! Nonetheless, I just hope it does as well as the 1/4 bore has and I am sure my son is going to enjoy that 25/06 to shoot.
Now I guess we will be keeping that ole model .270 Winchester that the wife swears by come whitetail deer season. You know, I told her that "You got a 7mm mag that will do the job too"! She rang back with "You know that is my elk rifle" say no more Darlin, I understand. ...... I ain't sleepin on the couch savvy.
Well, it looks like a few people besides her is into those .270 Winchesters come deer season......Ummmmmm and that ole 30-30 ain't far behind according to the poll.
Last edited on Mon Apr 13th, 2009 04:00 PM by
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14th, 2009 05:36 PM |
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36th Post |
swampshooter
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I believe the 30-30 has killed more whitetails than any other cartridge, but it's also crippled more.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14th, 2009 10:11 PM |
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37th Post |
Irish Mike
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Swampshooter, are there any stats on those crippled whitetail deer shot with the 30-30? I would be real interested in seeing those figures. I hear the same thing from hunters who dislike the .242 Winchester but those that own them, don't seem to have any problem tagging those dead as a door nail deer. So Long It's Been Good To Know ya! YOU too Klallen.... Looks like that pole is setting things straight about the .270 Winchester from other members of this forum.
Last edited on Tue Apr 14th, 2009 10:12 PM by
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14th, 2009 10:28 PM |
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38th Post |
TasunkaWitko
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if i had to choose one for whitetails based on "shootability" and performance, i'd probably take in 6.5 myself, even though i've never owned any - probably a .264/06.
but according to the "great"() jim carmichael, the .260 rem just abrely nudges out the 6.5x54 schoenauer as the "ultimate" whitetail cartridge.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14th, 2009 11:18 PM |
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39th Post |
Irish Mike
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Tazz you take care and teach those boys how to put the sneak on them thar critters OK......give my regards to all those places that the buffalo roamed and the deer and antelope play. So long Tazz!...
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14th, 2009 11:28 PM |
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40th Post |
sako06
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The 30-30 with Hornaday Leverevolution Ammunition can step right up there with the others!
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