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Timberghozt
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Posted: 2 December 2006 12:26 PM |
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Hey Phil, lr any other fellas that hunt down there in Africa,..Have you ever seen anyone shooting one of these?
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Texasdoc
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Posted: 2 December 2006 01:55 PM |
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YES, I got one . and if you would like to shoot it you can. I will have it at the Annual shoot in Breckenridge for Bull shooters get to gather so poacher can shoot it .
Doc
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hoashooter
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Posted: 2 December 2006 11:02 PM |
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I hear that 600 kills on one end and wounds on the other---not sure which is which I don't believe that I would enjoy shooting a rifle of that caliber ----
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PhilLozano
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| Joined: | 23 May 2005 |
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Posted: 3 December 2006 02:34 PM |
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The largest caliber I have seen here is the 577 N.E.
I know a P.H. that had one.
As I have stated before, the 500 N.E.is about my limit. I can only shoot it 6 to 8 times before I start to flinch.
As I do not own one (my shooting friend has a 500), I will never shoot it more than 4 or 5 times.
Once the 'hole in the end' of the barrel gets much over 45 cal., the recoil is difficult to manage (if you need a second shot in a hurry).
The only way I would move up to a 500, was if I was doing 3 Elephant hunts a year. Might be worth moving up then. However, with the 1 or 2 I do a year, my 450 has been up to the task when called upon.
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Force_Recon_Marine
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Posted: 5 December 2006 02:50 PM |
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| I have never hunted in Africa. If I ever get the chance, I believe I would have another .50BMG built. I would get this one with the 18.5" barrel to make it more user friendly. You will give up some velocity, but even with the shorter barrel you would still have more than enough power to kill anything that lives on the planet, and with a good muzzle brake the recoil is not as punishing. I am not sure what those big N.E.'s cost, but you could have one of these rifles for less than 2.
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PhilLozano
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Posted: 10 December 2006 01:13 PM |
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I believe I would have another .50BMG built. I would get this one with the 18.5" barrel to make it more user friendly. You will give up some velocity, but even with the shorter barrel you would still have more than enough power to kill anything that lives on the planet, and with a good muzzle brake the recoil is not as punishing.
Who's going to carry it all day ? ? Following Buffalo can turn into a 6 or 8 mile hike (every day), not to mention an Elephant hunt. With Ele's, you follow until you find them or lose the track. Maybe the Ele is shootable and maybe not. It goes that way each day as well. Elephants will walk 20 miles just to go to water.
If you bring that 50, you would have to hire 5 additional gun bear's I think.
I am not sure what those big N.E.'s cost, but you could have one of these rifles for less than 2.
Most reasonably well built doubles start at a bit more than 10K. A used English double by a 'name' maker, from 18K and up. European doubles are closer to the 10K mark.
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klallen
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Posted: 10 December 2006 02:02 PM |
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I agree with ya. Considering the sheer weight of the BMG rifle built, I don't think it'd be a viable choice simple from a carrying standpoint either. Even hunting elephant (which I've never done), I've never heard it said that BMG power is a requirement. Guess there's always the old addage you can never have to much power but from what I've read, there really wouldn't be any problem coming up with a reasonable top end of power necessary to dispatch dangerous game using cartridges that fall well below the massive .50 BMG power.
Speaking of rifle weight, Phil, what do you consider an optimum or desireable weight for a dangerous game rifle. I've heard some of those doubles can have some weight to them when compared to a typical sporter weight bolt action. If we could get a low power scoped bolt action in say .416 RemMag to come in around that 11 - 13 lb. range, would this be reasonable for a day of packing when after elephant? Or do ya shoot for lighter? Just curious. >> korey
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Force_Recon_Marine
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Posted: 10 December 2006 02:54 PM |
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Barrel
OAL Upper
Weight (Pounds)
with DPMS LR-05V Lower
and Ace Stock OAL
Weight (Pounds)
18"
32.5"
11.6
43.5"
13.8
22"
36.5"
12.2
47.5"
14.4
24"
38.5"
12.5
49.5"
14.7
29"
43.5"
15.0
54.5"
17.2
This is the specs on the Ultralite .50BMG. With the 18" barrel it comes in at 13.8 lbs. It is not a huge difference from the other rifles you are talking about. I have one with a 29" barrel and with the scope and bipod it is still under 20lbs.
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Force_Recon_Marine
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Posted: 10 December 2006 02:58 PM |
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Well that didnt lay out like I had planned.
18" weighs 13.8lbs with lower receiver.
22" is 14.4lbs
24" is 14.7lbs
29" is 17.2lbs
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klallen
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Posted: 10 December 2006 03:56 PM |
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A 13# .50 BMG? Ouch. Ya done a lot of shooting with a 13# BMG? When I see that I can't help but think there's only so much a good muzzle brake can do. After that, you're pretty much just along for the ride, especially with a cartridge the size of the .50 . Brakes work well when combined with rifle weight. But ya take one of the two away and there'd have to be considerable pop at the shoulder.
I can't imagine it not "working" in Africa; I've just never heard anyone seriously consider the .50 BMG as a necessary dangerous game choice.
Hope you do get there with your BMG. I'd love to hear all about it. Later. >> klallen
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Force_Recon_Marine
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Posted: 10 December 2006 04:38 PM |
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| I am sure it would get your attention. I have never shot one with the 18" barrell. My rifle with the 29" isnt bad at all. I shot it about 12 or 13 times the other day when I was rechecking the scope. After that it was starting to get uncomfortable. I have just heard that sometimes even with the big game rifles it can take several shots on a cape buffalo. I dont know for sure but I would think with a BMG in should only take one. I read somewhere once that a 10 gauge shotgun with a slug wouldnt even penetrate his skull. Not sure if that is true or not. If it came down to him or me I would just want to know that I had enough gun.
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PhilLozano
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Posted: 10 December 2006 06:50 PM |
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18" weighs 13.8lbs with lower receiver.
Not too bad. It is less than I thought.
Some thing to consider;
My 10 3/4 lb. 458 Lott has about 90 lbs. of felt recoil.
My 450 3 1/4 at 11lbs. 8oz. has about 80lbs.
A 460 Weatherby has 100lbs.
A 50BMG has to have a lot more.
Good for 1 shot I guess.
I have just heard that sometimes even with the big game rifles it can take several shots on a cape buffalo
Oh, yeah. Have a look here -
The one at the base of the neck was by Kent when the Buff was down (tried to finish the bull but missed the spine a bit).
The other 4 were from about 60 yards at the running Bull. 3 by Kent and 1 from me.
Not a bad group at a moving target, huh ?
How tough are Buffalo ? ?
You are looking at a critters front shoulder that took 15,000 ft. lbs. of energy, and was still going, until 5,000 additional ft. lbs. were applied. Then it just laid down (and I forgot to add in the first shot, so add another 5,000 ft. lbs. of energy).
Yeah, . . . . . they're tough !
By the way, that is a 458 Winnie for size reference.
Speaking of rifle weight, Phil, what do you consider an optimum or desireable weight for a dangerous game rifle. I've heard some of those doubles can have some weight to them when compared to a typical sporter weight bolt action. If we could get a low power scoped bolt action in say .416 RemMag to come in around that 11 - 13 lb. range, would this be reasonable for a day of packing when after elephant? Or do ya shoot for lighter?
I would say any big bore should be no less than 10 lbs. However, it is kind of a personal thing. 1 guy on my forum is building a 8lb. 458 Lott. Now as I have listed, my Lott weights 10 3/4 lbs. and it has plenty of recoil !. I am 220lbs. and when leaning into the Lott, it will lift my front foot off the ground.
But, I will stick with the 10lb. minimum as where to advise people as to rifle weight (I will more than likey add 1 1/2 to 22 lbs, to my Lott when I have a chance. Well, I say that but the Lott has been 10 3/4lbs. for 20 years).
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Force_Recon_Marine
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Posted: 10 December 2006 10:30 PM |
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That is a nice group. I cant compare because I have never shot a big game rifle. I have a plain 870 express super magnum Remington 12 gauge. With a 3.5" magnum nitro duck load it is much more severe than my 50BMG. A friend just shot my 50 the other day and his words were that his 30 06 kicked as bad as it did. Did any of the rounds in the buffalo make it through? Do you guys carry any type of backup weapon? Or is there a handgun that can serve as one?
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klallen
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Posted: 11 December 2006 01:08 AM |
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| FRM >> What bullet would you use? I know there's some great soft points in .50cal for dedicated .50 cal dangerous game cartridges but I don't necessarily know if they're designed for the top end velocities that the BMG is capable of. Have you looked into dangerous game bullet selection? >> klallen
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Timberghozt
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Posted: 11 December 2006 01:19 AM |
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I have shot a bunch of M2 Brownings..aka Ma Deuce..I don`t know about elephants but they are hell on trucks,light skinned vehicles and  grunts
I beleive that 50 would kill anything with four legs and do it in one shot with a 750 grain FMJ..I imagine it would bust a buff wide open though.
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Force_Recon_Marine
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Posted: 11 December 2006 02:22 AM |
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http://www.hawkbullets.com
I am going to order some of these to try. They look like they make great bullets and the prices are very reasonable. I may try one on white tail just for grins and giggles.
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klallen
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Posted: 11 December 2006 03:58 AM |
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Looks good with the Hawk bullets, FRM. Looking forward to a full write-up on bullet performance when you get some ran through the barrel.
Timberghozt wrote:
I beleive that 50 would kill anything with four legs
I would imagine that's a pretty accurate statement, Gene. LOL. Certainly don't think the ability to kill was ever in question.
Just having a hard time wrapping myself around the idea of enduring 210+ grs. of powder in a 13# rifle (which would be a smidge more then what I'd consider appropriate packing weight for long hauls across the African plains chasing the dangerous stuff). Ya shot Kirby's L.A.R. (30+ lb.) long enough and you'd have yourself a stiff neck and headache for a while. A 13 lb. BMG would be brutal to shoot, don't really care what kinda brake ya have on it, but moreso, I think it'd be just as brutal to pack extended ranges. That Savage .25-06 I carried around with me all season this year was a load on 4 - 8 mile walks and it weighs in at 11 1/2" lbs. Truth be told, I won't be hunting with it any longer where extended hiking is in order because of the weight factor. I think a BMG rifle in Africa would be regarded much the same way ... be taken out once for the novalty of it but quickly replaced with a lighter, more packer friendly rifle in a smaller, just as effective, round. You'd think that'd make the experience much more enjoyable. I know 5 miles into one of our antelope stalks this past Oct. I was sure wishing I had my 9 lb. .264 WinMag or 7.82 Warbird with me. LOL.
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Force_Recon_Marine
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Posted: 13 December 2006 07:36 PM |
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just as effective, round
I dont know if there is a "Just as effective round". Did you see the pics above. 5 shots to stop that beast. I just ordered 80 647 grain Barnes X-bullets. I would hope those would do the trick. I should be able to push these around the 3000 f.p.s. maybe even a little more out of my 29" barrel. I am sure they will slow down quite a bit out of the 18, but think of the hole they will make...
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klallen
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Posted: 14 December 2006 01:47 AM |
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Force_Recon_Marine wrote: just as effective, round
I dont know if there is a "Just as effective round".
I can't really speak of the effectiveness of the BMG in Africa. I've never heard of any real life experiences where folks have used a .50 BMG on buff. That certainly don't mean it wouldn't get the job done. But maybe there are better options. I don't know. Would be interesting to take the top 100 African PH's and have them pick their #1 dedicated buff cartridge. Would imagine they'd pick in terms of what they perceive as the most effective on the animal. Wonder where the .50 BMG would rank? Or the .416 RemMag? Or the .458 Lott? Or the classic European chartridges? Be neat to see.
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Force_Recon_Marine
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Posted: 14 December 2006 02:00 AM |
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| I agree. I have no basis for comparison since I have never shot a big game rifle. I am going to try one of the X-bullets on whitetail out of my 50 just to test. I would love to see what one would do on a big bull buff. Maybe one day I will find out for myself.
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