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chuckscap
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| Joined: | 12 October 2007 |
| Location: | Colorado Springs, Colorado USA |
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Posted: 2 December 2007 10:23 PM |
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Hi, anyone have one of these? Are these relatively easy to load "down" to 505 Gibbs level? How heavy should one be to avoid nose-bleeds, headaches, etc. when shooting from the bench. Is a removeable muzzle brake a necessity?
Thanks,
Chuck
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"There's a saying in prizefighting ... Everyone's got a plan until they get hit."
Michael Douglas "Ghost In The Darkness"
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sdb777
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| Joined: | 16 October 2005 |
| Location: | Cabot, Arkansas USA |
| Posts: | 1264 |
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Posted: 2 December 2007 10:54 PM |
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I believe that 'Hammer' has some of these? I could possibly be wrong, but I remember that he shoots them without brakes or downloading......
AmmoGuide only shows 6 different loadings for this caliber, and none are reduced type loadings.
What type of rifle are you planning on get your backside kicked with? Don't tell me a Thompson Center Encore or something....... And can you get the video camera going when you shoot it? Was hoping to see some new 'funny videos' on uTube!
Scott (no black-n-blue here) B
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Archery Tech at a BIG BOX store....
I know where the bathroom is...please ask me!
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chuckscap
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 12 October 2007 |
| Location: | Colorado Springs, Colorado USA |
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Posted: 2 December 2007 11:36 PM |
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Well it's either the 500 A-Square or a wimpy 470 Capstick lol. I have a CZ 550 in 375 H&H. Right now it weighs just short of 11 lbs including one mercury recoil reducer. I figure to add a heavy 24" Krieger barrel, removeable muzzle brake with cap and at least one more reducer if I go with the 500. I don't mind heavy as long as the balance is right. I'd like it to point like a fine shotgun. Videos are a must though ...
Chuck
____________________
"There's a saying in prizefighting ... Everyone's got a plan until they get hit."
Michael Douglas "Ghost In The Darkness"
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PhilLozano
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| Joined: | 23 May 2005 |
| Location: | Arusha, Tanzania |
| Posts: | 293 |
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Posted: 4 December 2007 02:43 PM |
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I only knew 1 guy that had 1. Effective, but a recoil is not non existant here.
Have you considered a 500 Jeffery ? Plenty of power and recoil.
There is a big step up from 47 cal. to 50 cal. If you have a 416 or something in that class, to increase your power level to where it is worth the investment, I'd go to 50 cal.
Personally, if I were to go up in power from my 45 cal. big bore, I'd consider a 500 N.E. (in a double) or go straight to the 510 Wells in a bolt gun.
Weight, I would look strongly at 12+ lbs.
My Westley (450 3 1/4) weights 11 lbs. 8 ozs. and it is about right for me. My 458 Lott comes in at 10 3/4 lbs. and I need to add some weight, I think. I seldom use the Lott (only on late season Ele hunts, as I don't want the rain on my double), so I doubt I will do much to it, considering how much I actually shoot it.
You mentioned the 505 Gibbs. Not a bad choice either. Plenty of power for whatever you need it for.
As stated previously, when building/buying a big bore, what are your intentions. How fast can you recover out of recoil and get back on target after pulling the trigger ?
If you just WANT a big,powerful, nasty big bore rifle and never intend on going after Dangerous GAme, then get all the cartridge you can shoot and still walk after pulling the trigger.
Even at 458 Lott levels of recoil, when I go to the range, there guys with the 50 cal. bolt guns that weigh 30, 35 lbs. come over and want to shoot the Lott. After they pull the trigger once, . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . they are done. They don't want to shoot it again.
OK, OK, now it is your choice as to what you want to build, just keep us all informed.
BTW and OT - We are back in Florida now, returned last Sat, night, so I will be around here more often now . . . . . . . . . . . at least for awhile.
____________________
Best,
Phil
Stay out of sight and downwind
Professional Hunter / Tanzania
http://www.go-on-safari.com
http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk
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500 A-Square man
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| Joined: | 5 December 2007 |
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Posted: 6 December 2007 11:30 PM |
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Hi Chuck,
Yes, I own a 500 A-Square rifle. It is an A-Square Hannibal model with a 23 in. barrel. It does have a very hefty recoil. I have owned and shot the following large game calibers:
338 Win Mag.
375 H & H Mag.
378 Wby. Mag.
416 Rem. Mag.
458 Win. Mag.
458 Lott
500 A-Square
I can say that the .500 has quite a bit more perceived recoil than the 458 Lott, which is itself a healthy cut above the 458 Win. and 416 Rem. Basically, the .500 A-Sq. in a 10.5 lb rifle has somewhere between 104 to 107 ft. lbs. of recoil. That is about the same as a 600 Nitro Express, accounting for the fact that a .600 is a heavier rifle. Their recoil energy is the same. My .500 weighs 11.5 lbs. with it's Leupold 1-4X scope. But, when I shoot mine, I can feel a pressure wave in my sinuses. And really, much more than (3) shots close together, or so, leaves me feeling shakey, similar to the feeling of being in a car accident! But, the power is definitely awesome! I can cloverleaf .50 cal. holes at 100 yards off the bench. BUT, I DO PAY THE PRICE!
Let me know if you have any more questions.
500 A-Square man
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chuckscap
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 12 October 2007 |
| Location: | Colorado Springs, Colorado USA |
| Posts: | 66 |
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Posted: 7 December 2007 01:33 PM |
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A 470 Capstick's looking better all the time after your description of the 500 A-Square's recoil 500 A-Square Man, lol. I'm thinking of a 13 lb rifle without scope, my CZ 550 in 375 H&H weighs 11 lbs (it has a mercury recoil reducer in it) without scope. Shooting 350g Woodleighs at 2400 fps it generates 38.7 ft lbs of recoil. I was figuring on a 24" heavier barrel for either of the stopping calibers plus another reducer. The 470 Capstick at 13 lbs without scope geneartes 56.3 lbs of recoil. That's just a bit more than a 416 Rem in a 10 lb rifle.
I'd rather deal with a couple of extra pounds of weight, than the extra recoil. I hunt in Colorado from 8000 ft to 12000 ft elevation going up and down the difference a couple of times a day with an 11 lb rifle. so I think 13 lbs in more level terrain (though much hotter) won't be an issue.
The description of the recoil from the 500 A-Square was awesome and I must say sobering ...
Thanks again,
Chuck
____________________
"There's a saying in prizefighting ... Everyone's got a plan until they get hit."
Michael Douglas "Ghost In The Darkness"
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500 A-Square man
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| Joined: | 5 December 2007 |
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Posted: 7 December 2007 10:53 PM |
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Yes, I think a 13 lb. 470 Capstick with a couple of reducers and well balanced, of course, should prove to make that combo as comfortable as possible, and be a sweet rig.
I can say that I can shoot the 416 Rem. with no problem and even quite a few 458 Lott factory rounds, before the recoil starts getting to me. But, not so with the 500 A-Square. It is definitely in another class.
In Kevin Robertson's book, Africa's Most Dangerous ( Safari Press), about hunting the Cape Buffalo, he describes an acquaintance who bought the exact same rifle that I have (Hannibal, 500 A-Square) and took a test shot with the rifle over the hood of his Toyota Land Cruiser. The muzzle blast (600gr. bullet @ 2,400 fps) shattered his windshield and he tore the ligaments in his shoulder! And even after a series of painful operations, to this day, he can't raise his right elbow above shoulder height.
I don't know. Maybe he took his shot with his shoulder completely relaxed. You cannot shoot an extremely powerful rfile like that. You will definitely get hurt, if you do so. I see that you have a 375 H&H. In comparing the recoil of a .375 to a .500 A-Square, would be about the same as a .243 Win.
to a 375 H&H, or a 416 Rem. I have shot all of these rifles, so I know from first hand experience. But, recoil tolerance is different for everybody. Some people can shoot 577 Tyrannosaurs. That would be a stretch, even for me!
Robertson goes on to say that there's no "earthly" reason for pushing a 600 gr. bullet at 2,400+fps. Doing so usually results in lengthwise exits on Cape Buffalo and even elephant! And of course, this is dangerous for other animals nearby.
I also discussed the 500 A-Square with PH Mark Sullivan (well known for all of his charging dangerous game videos). Of the 500 A-Square, he told me, "That is more cartridge than you or I will ever need!" Coming from someone that likes to hunt with a 600 Nitro, that's definitely saying something!
Look forward to your progress on the 470 Capstick project, if that's what you decide to do.
Most important of all is having fun!
500 A-Square man
Attachment: OSCN0486.jpg (Downloaded 57 times)
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chuckscap
HB Full Member
| Joined: | 12 October 2007 |
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Posted: 7 December 2007 11:02 PM |
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Thanks for all the information and advice. That's an awesome looking rifle. I'm going to start the 470 Capstick project probably next fall right after elk and bear season. Meanwhile I'll have fun with my little 375.
Regards and thanks again,
Chuck
____________________
"There's a saying in prizefighting ... Everyone's got a plan until they get hit."
Michael Douglas "Ghost In The Darkness"
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sdb777
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| Joined: | 16 October 2005 |
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Posted: 8 December 2007 12:27 AM |
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Just get yourself one of these!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQJSZs-euZU
Scott (always funny to watch) B
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Archery Tech at a BIG BOX store....
I know where the bathroom is...please ask me!
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Hi Ball
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 29 September 2007 |
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Posted: 14 January 2008 01:49 AM |
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Chuck I have a model 70 in the 470-Capstick and if you need any help, just give me a shout OK....send a PM etc.
I started out with a new Krieger 26 inch heavy barrel and added a muzzle brake at the end. The barrel had a 1 in 14 twist and I do NOT recommend anything slower. I believe the 470 NE has a 1 in 20 or 22 twist.
I later on got rid of the "muzzle brake" and had the barrel cut back and crowned to 23 inches, it is a lot handier for close up work and is not as barrel heavy either.
The best powder I have found for the sake of accuracy would be IMR-4320. I have gotten some very accurate groups when in the lower 2300 fps range. It penetrates very well in tests I have done so far. You can check out the tables in a reloading book called "Any Shot You Want" by Arthur B. Alphin on page 258.
Muzzle Energy of the .470 - Capstick = 6394 lbs. with 500 grn bullet, certainly nothing to sneeze at in regards to hunting dangerous big game.
Penetration Index = 114 ( A .495 A -Square is 107, 505 Gibbs is 91, .500 NE is 90, .458 Win is 95.
The 450 Ackely is 114. only the .460 Sh. A - Square and the 500 A - Square (600 grn bullet) 131, along with the .460 Wby = 153 . The .460 Sh. A-Square at 135. All of these promote much more felt recoil to the body than the .470 - Capstick with 500 grain bullet.
My 470 - Capstick with rifle scope, weighs in at 10. 65 lbs these days! Good Luck with your project.
Last edited on 14 January 2008 01:55 AM by Hi Ball
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Hammer
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Posted: 14 January 2008 07:18 AM |
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Play with a few of the big bores including the 500 A-Square.
Have loaded it with Woodleigh 570-grain solids and softs.
Good 4-foot penetration when fired into tightly-bundled soaking wet newspapers with the solids with a hole (channel) about double the diameter compared to the same bullet fired from a 500 Nitro Express -- the difference between 2,400 fps and 2,150 fps.
However, with softs the 500 A-Square is a bomb blowing away the first nine-inches of tightly bundled wet newspapers into confetti but not penetrating any deeper. Bullet expanded to more than an inch in diameter.
No problem with downloading to match other caliber specs. Just be careful of which powder you use for this.
As to recoil, my A-Square rifle is about 13-pounds. Some may think that is heavy, but some of the big British doubles were that heavy and no one ever heard the Brits whine. No muzzle brake. Kick is not too bad and one could rapid fire it at a charging buffalo if they needed to.
Now the 585 Nyati gets your attention a little more.
Hammer
Last edited on 14 January 2008 07:21 AM by Hammer
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chuckscap
HB Full Member
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Posted: 14 January 2008 03:38 PM |
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Thanks Hi Ball, I'm going to shoot my 375 (should weigh in at about 10.5 lbs without scope) for a year then seriously consider going to 470 Capstick. It should be here soon. I was thinking a 1 in 12" twist for the 470 Capstick? 13 lbs seems about right to me for that rig also.
Regards,
Chuck
____________________
"There's a saying in prizefighting ... Everyone's got a plan until they get hit."
Michael Douglas "Ghost In The Darkness"
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Hammer
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Posted: 14 January 2008 04:02 PM |
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Think my 470 Capsticks are in the 10 1/2 pound range.
Have one on a Montana action and one on a Sako action. Both are swap barrel guns making them a complete African battery.
Pac-Nor made the barrels.
The Capstick is a fine cartridge.
Last edited on 14 January 2008 04:05 PM by Hammer
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