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Blackhat
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 2 January 2006 |
| Location: | New Braunfels, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 155 |
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Posted: 8 February 2008 10:46 PM |
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Have any of you African PHs/hunters ever seen anyone use a 405 Winchester on Cape Buffalo, Rhino, or Elephant? Would it be considered an acceptable cartridge?
I know that Teddy Roosevelt used it on The Big Five, I believe they are called, and it was actually his favorite cartridge in a Winchester M-1895. Any comments?
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PhilLozano
Administrator
| Joined: | 23 May 2005 |
| Location: | Arusha, Tanzania |
| Posts: | 302 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | big bore dangerous game |
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Posted: 10 February 2008 04:10 PM |
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He did use it on all the Dangerous Game. As I remember, it was his favorite for Lion (called it his "Lion Medicine").
He also had a 500/465, H&H I think, which is much more powerful and he used quite a bit as well.
I would say, sure, a 405 Winchester will kill Dangerous Game, but it would not be my first choice (nor even in the top 50+).
The 405 shoots a 300 grain bullet at about 2,200fps.
A 375 H&H (which I think is the absolute minimum and I prefer more, for DG) shoots a 300 grain bullet at 2500fps.
Also, with a 40+ cal., 300 grain bullet, the SD of the bullet would be a bit below what I would choose.
Additionally, (for you 45/70,90, 100,110 120 fans), everything I say about the 405 can be applied to those cartridges as well.
Yes, they will all work. However, that does not mean it is the best choice.
A .22 rim fire will kill a deer, but it is not the preferred choice.
Bell killed Elephants with a 7x57, does not make it an Elephant cartridge.
As I have always said . . . . . . . . . . . whatever cartridge you use for DG, choose it as if you had to follow up a possibly wounded Lion/Buffalo into the long grass/heavy bush alone !.
And when doing so, if you are feeling under gunned, then whatever cartridge you are now "wishing" you had, should have been the one you used for the first shot.
As they say on my forum, " using any weapon/cartridge inadequate in bullet weight, velocity, energy and sectional density, make it a " stunt hunt".
The object of all our hunting is to dispatch the animals we hunt as quickly as possible.
IMHO
____________________
Best,
Phil
Stay out of sight and downwind
Professional Hunter / Tanzania
http://www.go-on-safari.com
http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk
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Blackhat
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 2 January 2006 |
| Location: | New Braunfels, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 155 |
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Posted: 10 February 2008 06:27 PM |
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| Thanks for your input Phil.
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LilMag
HB Life Member
| Joined: | 29 September 2007 |
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| Posts: | 205 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! |
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Posted: 27 December 2008 05:58 PM |
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Phil great post! ***
I have read so much hip on the hunting forums the last 5 years or so concerning the 45/70, etc and the so called black bear loads in a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with double 00 Buck it's insane.
Your post has put things into a much better perspective for all of us, who just don't have any practical experience with such weapons used upon dangerous game animals in Africa.
I on a couple of occasions used a 45/70 on wild hogs in my state but after getting a jam or two (as well with a Marlin 444 caliber) I choose to go back to the bolt model 70 in the .458 and .338 mag. I also carry a model 29 Smith & Wesson in a 44 mag, just in case something might go wrong.
Phil, I have a 44-40 and a 405 Winchester lever guns (reproductions) but these are for display and shooting at the gun club when I so choose. I also take along the Sharps 45-120 and #2 Creedmoor 45-90 for an afternoon of nostalgia shooting targets.
Last edited on 27 December 2008 06:04 PM by LilMag
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PhilLozano
Administrator
| Joined: | 23 May 2005 |
| Location: | Arusha, Tanzania |
| Posts: | 302 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | big bore dangerous game |
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Posted: 28 December 2008 04:23 AM |
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Hi Ball wrote: Your post has put things into a much better perspective for all of us, who just don't have any practical experience with such weapons used upon dangerous game animals in Africa.
Thanks.
____________________
Best,
Phil
Stay out of sight and downwind
Professional Hunter / Tanzania
http://www.go-on-safari.com
http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk
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