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The favorite African Dangerous game cartridge.

Moderated by: PhilLozano, greysmoke

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Posted: Sun May 22nd, 2005 04:09 PM

Timberghozt
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Hey Greysmoke.What cartridge do you see used most for the meanest critters?Cape Buffalo,lion and such?Is the 458 Win Mag very popular opposed the the Rigby`s and H&H Magnums.How do the big Weatherby mags fare down there in popularity?

I told ya.I have tons of questions..

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Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2005 08:51 AM

greysmoke
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Hi TG

I would say there is an equal following between the following: .375H&H, .458Win, and the good old 9.3x62 to a lesser extent.

The Weatherby's have a fair folllowing in PH circles, they need the extra power and reach of these calibres.

I think H&H's .375 is a good choice, for the person that is thinking of hunting the bigger game Africa's got. Not only is it versatile, but the recoils is easier to master than the bigger cal's. And it is proven to be effective on Cape Buff.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the.375 is the best 'stopper'. I still think a PH should have something slightly bigger. Better choice might be .458 Lott?

How popular is the .458Win in the states?

All the best

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Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2005 03:11 PM

Timberghozt
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Hey Grey..

Well I can`t attest to the popularity of the 458 WM but we have some fellas on the board that own them.Just from what I`ve seen in reloading manuals it is a powerful thing.I think the 458 Lott might be ideal as it is immensely stout as well.

I`ve never seen anybody here with a 460 Weatherby,but that is knockdown power at work.Without a brake on it,literally knockdown on both ends.

How about some of you 458 Win Mag shooters?Would you trust it on some of the planets most dangerous animals in a face to face short range charge? :wink:

:wink:

Great info Grey..

____________________
"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche

Posted: Tue May 24th, 2005 03:47 AM

PhilLozano
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The 458 Lott is a very nice cartridge. The one I have started life as a 458 Win. Mag.. I was not too pleased with it and got it rechambered to 458 Lott. It works very well, period.

I am currently using a 450 3 1/4 or 450 NE, in a Westley Richards double.

My hand loads are 480 grn. bullet and I chronographed them at 2200fps.(2200, 2190, 2220 somewhere in there, was the S.D.) A bit more than the original factory specs., but there are no pressure signs and it shoots very well from both barrels.

I think the 375 will kill Buffalo. but the 416's will KILL Buffalo.

The 416's of any flavor, just P O U N D S them.

When clients ask me what to bring, I tell them to bring a 338 Winnie and a 416 of any kind.

I have been thinking a lot about the 338. Last year I took a 35 Whelen to Africa for the first time. Boy, was I impressed. What a killer on plains game with 250 grn. bullets. Did I say plains game ? It also blew a Leopard out of the tree and the LIon did not like it either. Sable, Zebra, Warthog and even a Buffalo (it is not a Buffalo cartridge), but it did the job (all one shot each, thank you, with factory ammo).

I am still impressed.

I may have to rethink the 338 thing.

I have used a few diferent cartridges for 'Stoppers'. All pretty much the same, until you get to the 500NE. That is a step up.

Best,
Phil
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Last edited on Tue May 24th, 2005 03:50 AM by PhilLozano

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Posted: Tue May 24th, 2005 09:35 AM

greysmoke
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hi Phil

Good to hear there are more .458Lott users out there. I think the extra capacity of the lott makes a huge difference, and brings the cartrige closer to what the developers had in mind in the first place.

For myself, I feel more comfortable with a .375, that I can handle properly( I am small in frame) than I do with even a .458.

But I aggree - the 416 and bigger is most definately better if you are after the bigger stuuf in Africa.

Dont forget the .404Jeff- a cartrige that looks bland on paper, but have been used very effectively in the field.

The .338's- I just love them. I think they are so much more versitile than the .30's, and with the 300gr Woodleighs they do get the buff on the ground.

Im not a supporter of 'smaller and lighter is better' - but the 300gr's in a .338 does seem to work. I would never go after a wounded buff with something so light though.

Phil, regarding your 450 double, please post a picture for us

did you have problems getting the barrels to regulate with your handloads? what powder did you use?

All the best

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Posted: Tue May 24th, 2005 04:58 PM

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Yes I agree, the Lott is very nice.

The 404 Jeff. is very good as well.

RE: the 375. A 375 in the right place is worth 3- 458 Lotts in the wrong place.

My double is a very well made rifle. It regulates with what I put in it. I do use H-4831. Not the direct cordite 1 for 1 powder that I think 3031 is. I think someone told me the cordite weight X 1.333 is the 4831 loading.

I am with you, personally, I do not think the "light bullet at a high velocity" is the best for African hunting.

I like heavy, tough bullets at a reaonable velocity. I will take more velocity, but the bullet must be of tough construction and heavy for caliber.

IMO

Best,
Phil
http://www.go-on-safari.com

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Posted: Thu May 26th, 2005 09:43 AM

Mickey Rat
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I was at the local gun shop when a small, older guy (5' 3" 135 lbs) comes in and asked if his ammo had come in. The clerk says yes and comes in humping what looks like cigar boxes. I note that it is 458 Win Mag.

Me: You going on a safari?

(Note: I live in southeast Alabama)

He: Nope, I just deer hunt with it.

Me: Hows that work out?"

He: Never had one get up.

I can't really say much. I hunt with a 45-70 Siamese Mauser with a 450 gr Barnes X spitzer @ 2100 fps. I haven't taken a deer yet, but my buddies bet that it won't get up.

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Posted: Thu May 26th, 2005 08:39 PM

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I like the .460 Weatherby and the .458 Win. Mag. This is my .460 Weatherby Mark V DeLuxe. I took the picture the day I bought it before I scoped it. It has the Accubrake standard. It's got about 350 rounds thru it thus far with zero problems. Recoil with the Accubrake is about like an unbraked .375 H&H. Without the brake, well, you don't want to know! The other gun, (left), is my Browning A-Bolt Medallion in .375 H&H with BOSS. It's a real good shooter as well. billt

Last edited on Thu May 26th, 2005 09:06 PM by

Posted: Thu May 26th, 2005 09:05 PM

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These are some of my other big bores. (Left), Winchester Model 70 Super Express in .458 Win. Mag. (center) Winchester Model 70 Super Express in .375 H&H Mag. (right) Remington 700 Safari Grade in .458 Win. Mag. with an H&S Precision Synthetic Stock.

Posted: Thu May 26th, 2005 10:25 PM

PhilLozano
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Mr. BillT,

Nice rifles. Are you having trouble with your 460 ?

If so, what kind of problems are you having ?

I have a client that is looking for a 375 (or maybe even a 9.3 x 62 or 64 even), if you know someone please let me know.

Thanks.

Best,
Phil

Mr. Mickey Rat,

It is true I have heard too many gun shots and my hearing is not so good anymore.

However, please don't shout at me/us here. Thanks.

And I think you are correct. They won't get up !

Best,
Phil

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Posted: Fri May 27th, 2005 01:14 AM

Timberghozt
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Hey billt..Some very nice rifles you have there bud.What do you use in that big 460?That cartridge blows my mind.The downrange energy it is capable of is awesome..

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Posted: Fri May 27th, 2005 01:23 AM

Mickey Rat
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Phil,

The big letters are not shouting. I am hard of seeing. It's for me and others like me. My version of a scope.

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Posted: Fri May 27th, 2005 02:28 AM

PhilLozano
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OK, if it helps you post your comments here, great ! No problem.

Thanks for the update.

Best,
Phil

Last edited on Fri May 27th, 2005 02:28 AM by PhilLozano

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Posted: Fri May 27th, 2005 04:22 AM

Mickey Rat
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Greysmoke,

1st let me say that I am a hunter at heart, and love hunting (that really set's a bad mood, doesn't it?). My question is about elephant.

I feel that certain animals really should not be hunted because of their intelegence levels: great apes, dolphin, whale and elephant to be specific. From what I have read, elephants seem to have very human traits. I personally could never just shoot one for sport any more than I could shoot a person. If I were attacked I of course would shoot (I have had a CCW permit since 1979, and carried daily).

Is this because I don't know any better? Having observed and experianced more than I have, what is your position?

Again, these questions are submitted with the utmost respect, and in the intrest of learning from someone that has personal experiance. If you don't wish to respond, I fully understand.

I accidentally posted this in the wrong place earlier.

Hey Phil, is this better?

Mickey Rat

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Posted: Fri May 27th, 2005 05:01 AM

PhilLozano
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Mickey Rat,

An answer is under the 470 Capstick topic.

Also, if you have specific questions about hunting Elephants, please send me a PM or email.

Thanks.

Best.
Phil

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Posted: Fri May 27th, 2005 02:26 PM

greysmoke
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Hi Mickey

I think that is one of the topics that normally gets everyone talking when around the fire on a cold night......

Me personally, I have to aggree with you. If anyone ever spent some time in the bush close to elephant ,they might know what Im talking about.

Its hard to explain, the feeling. Apart form the fact that I have a great respect for them(and all other animals), there is the feeling you get that they are more intellegent. The way they interact with their young. The whole structure of their interaction with each other. Grom the dominant, to the youngest and smallest.

Then again we have the real problem of elephant overpopulation in the game reserves and national parks. In order to ensure their survival they have to be harvested from time to time.

I dont think I woud ever hunt an elephant. Its just not for me. I do know that there are other people that might feel very differently about the subject, and I respect them and their views.

I think its one of the many choices everyone has to make for themselves?

All the best.

Grey

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Posted: Fri May 27th, 2005 03:09 PM

billt
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Phil,

I've had my .460 since 2000. As of now it's seen around 350 rounds thru it. I have never had a problem to speak of since I bought it. The gun is quite comfortable to shoot, considering the magnatude of the round. The Accubrake works very well. I have heard that some .460's have a problem with the magazine floorplate opening under recoil, but mine has never done so. billt

Posted: Fri May 27th, 2005 03:16 PM

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Timber,

I'll be the first to admit I "needed" a .460 like I needed a hole in the head, but I'm really glad I bought it. The gun looks just beautiful, and is a blast to shoot! When my wife and I go out to the desert to shoot, I'll take it along some time. My favorite targets are those 5 gallon metal pails with the lids that have the tabs you use a screwdriver to open. (the kind grease and driveway sealer used to come in.) I fill the pail right to the top with water, then put the lid on tight. From about 50 yards I'll drive a 500 Grain Soft Point into it, and the lid goes about 75 feet straight up. The can is blown wide open. It's neat the way it can put 5 gallons of water in the air all at once! billt

Posted: Fri May 27th, 2005 11:30 PM

PhilLozano
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Mr. BillT,

Everyone needs one of those 'hole in the head ' rifles. And I think we all have one, or want one.

Best,
Phil

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Posted: Sat May 28th, 2005 12:12 AM

Timberghozt
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Bill..stop talking now.No more comments about the 460 Weatherby.I mean it,I really respect that cartridge..and if you keep telling me these stories..I will have to go buy me a rifle chambered for it... :lol:

:lol:

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