| Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 12:25 AM |
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41st Post |
PhilLozano
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Chuckscap,
If you are looking for more power than the Lott, or don't like the Lott, have a look at some of the cartridges I mentioned previously here before.
If you want a 470 Capstick, Ok, you want a 470 Capstick. And that's OK, I have no problem with that.
And if that is the case, then the rest of what I say here is just so much blah, blah (except the part about Clay).
The 458 Lott is a fine DG cartridge. Easy to reload for as well. If you need anything more than a Lott to save your bacon, you need something way bigger !
I have stopped more than a few Ele's in their tracks with mine, as well as Lions and Buffs.
I do not see much of a difference between the 458 Lott and the 470 Capstick. A 458 cal. bullet will have better penetration than a 47 cal. bullet of the same weight. True, there is more frontal area with the 47 cal. vs the 45 cal..
There are other cartridges I would choose over the Capstick, but, I would not pass over the 458 Lott (which I didn't). I use a double 450 3 1/4 (450 N.E.) now, so I have a quick follow up shot if needed. The 450 N.E. shoots a 480 grn. bullet at 2150 fps. Pretty much the same as what the 458 Win. Mag. did when it first came out. If I only had 1 shot to save my butt, I'd bet it on the 458 Lott.
Your question about AHR . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . don't know anything about him/them.
That being said, for my project, I am going with Clay Spencer. Too many good reports from my clients about Clay not to use him (you can google Clay or have a look at the bench rest sites).
Clay loves Mauser and Mauser type actions, and it is hard to find a good smith that will put in the time (and have the knowledge) to make them super accurate. Just my $.02 worth.
____________________
Best,
Phil
Stay out of sight and downwind
Professional Hunter / Tanzania
http://www.go-on-safari.com
http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 12:43 AM |
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42nd Post |
chuckscap
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Thanks much Phil, I'll look him up.
Regards,
Chuck
____________________
"There's a saying in prizefighting ... Everyone's got a plan until they get hit."
Michael Douglas "Ghost In The Darkness"
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 02:51 AM |
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43rd Post |
Blackhat
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Thanks for sharing your experience/knowledge Phil. I do not know if I will ever make it to Africa for a safari, frankly I am more fearful of the snakes you guys have there than I am of the DG! My friend has told me a few snake stories.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 03:28 PM |
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44th Post |
PhilLozano
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Blackhat wrote:
Thanks for sharing your experience/knowledge Phil. I do not know if I will ever make it to Africa for a safari, frankly I am more fearful of the snakes you guys have there than I am of the DG! My friend has told me a few snake stories.
Blackhat,
Since 1984, I have had only a few encounters with snakes. I do not really think about them.
I have crawled through the grass and the bush more than a few times and never thought about running into a snake.
From the TV programs, I've seen many more snakes at one of the "rattler round ups" in Texas than I ever have in Africa.
True, the snakes in Africa are bad news if you get bitten, but I have seen photos of a person that was bitten by a rattler. It was pretty awful what happened to that guy.
Personally, I would say you are MUCH more likely to be in a minor fender-bender, than see a snake while in Africa. Also, it depends on the time of year you are there. Snakes usually don't make an appearance until late September or early August, in Tanzania. Sure, they are there all the time, but before September, it is too cold for them (one place I hunt, it is bloody cold in July, about 34, 38 degrees in the morning and in the evenings, but warm during the day).
____________________
Best,
Phil
Stay out of sight and downwind
Professional Hunter / Tanzania
http://www.go-on-safari.com
http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 06:37 AM |
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45th Post |
LilMag
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Hello Phil, just to let you know that there are no flies in the soup, I'll give you my velocity findings on my .470-Capstick using 500 grain weight bullets. I use IMR-4320 powder, as suggested by George Hoffman a couple years back OK. Now this rifle firing a 500 grain bullet, through my "Chrony" 15 feet from the muzzle, did in fact average 2330fps. Not to shabby and lets not forget it does have more frontal area than a .458 caliber, producing more "shock" to the animal so the experts say.
I think that 2150fps your speaking of must have been by the way of firing a 600 grain bullet instead of the normal 500 grain bullet. I am using 89.6 grains of IMR-4230 powder like I stated early. It works and that's all I can say really. If it isin't broke, no need to fix it period.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 02:55 PM |
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46th Post |
chuckscap
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Hi Ball, if you've already told me I apologize, but what is the barrel length on your 470 Capstick?
I'm making the decision this week either to have my 375 H&H rechambered to 375 Weatherby or have the barrel rebored to 470 Capstick. I'm looking at a box of A-Square 470 Capstick 500g Dead Toughs and they certainly look mean compared to my 375 H&H cartridges! If I decide to go with the 375 Weatherby, I'll be selling the 470 A=Square cartridges cheap. My elk season ended early due to a family emergency which ended up fine. So it's the time to do somthing with my rifle.
My wife has nixed me either buying an additional rifle or seliing and trading up due to the current financial mess, but rechambering or reboring both come in under $500 plus dies. My current CZ 375 H&H 550 weighs in at 11 lbs with scope (25" barrel). Rebored to .470 Capstick and the barrel cut down to 22" it would weigh about 3/4 pound less. So it's either an 10.25 lb 375 Weatherby shooting 350g Woodleighs at 2550 fps or a 9.5 lb 470 Capstick shooting 500g A-Frames at 2300 fps. Once again, thanks for all of your advice.
Best Regards,
Chuck
Thanks,
Chuck
Last edited on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 03:13 PM by chuckscap
____________________
"There's a saying in prizefighting ... Everyone's got a plan until they get hit."
Michael Douglas "Ghost In The Darkness"
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 09:33 PM |
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47th Post |
chuckscap
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Deleted Last edited on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 10:22 PM by chuckscap
____________________
"There's a saying in prizefighting ... Everyone's got a plan until they get hit."
Michael Douglas "Ghost In The Darkness"
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13th, 2008 11:04 PM |
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48th Post |
PhilLozano
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Hi Ball wrote:
Hello Phil, just to let you know that there are no flies in the soup, I'll give you my velocity findings on my .470-Capstick using 500 grain weight bullets. I use IMR-4320 powder, as suggested by George Hoffman a couple years back OK. Now this rifle firing a 500 grain bullet, through my "Chrony" 15 feet from the muzzle, did in fact average 2330fps. Not to shabby and lets not forget it does have more frontal area than a .458 caliber, producing more "shock" to the animal so the experts say.
Didn't I say that ?
____________________
Best,
Phil
Stay out of sight and downwind
Professional Hunter / Tanzania
http://www.go-on-safari.com
http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 04:56 AM |
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49th Post |
LilMag
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PHIL...........(47 verses 45) 500 grain bullet at 2150fps!..........is what I read in one of your posts OK.
I shoot a 600 grain bullet at 2120fps! NO BIG DEAL!!!
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 07:13 AM |
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50th Post |
PhilLozano
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PhilLozano wrote:
Had a look at the ballistics for the Capstick when looking it up on the net.
Was suprised to see the velocity at only 2150 fps. I thought it was a bit more.
When I am in Tanzania (like now), I don't have access to any reloading manuals. As I posted, I looked it up on the 'net' to see what the velocity was. Where ever I looked, it must have quoted 2150 fps., so that is what I posted.
Also, I mentioned that I thought it was somewhat faster than 2150.
I think I had mentioned that a 47 cal., 500 grain bullet has/had more frontal area, and that a 45 cal., 500 grain bullet has better penetration.
However I think there is no noticeable difference, as it is a pretty small difference in either case.
____________________
Best,
Phil
Stay out of sight and downwind
Professional Hunter / Tanzania
http://www.go-on-safari.com
http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk
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| Posted: Thu Oct 16th, 2008 04:27 AM |
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51st Post |
LilMag
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Phil I only know what I read in the newspaper! LOL
Lets do talk about penetration of the .470 Capstick and the .458 Winchester both using 500 grain bullets shall we. I once read in a manual, that a "penetration index" was set up to give the lowest common denominator to all bullets.
The .458 Winchester with 500 grainer at a velocity of 2040fps, got an index score of a 95. It also received a "Shock Power Index" of a 761.
The .470 Capstick with a 500 grain bullet, at a velocity at over 2300fps received a penetration index of 114. The "shock power index" was a whopping 1133.
Now in comparison the .416 Weatherby with a 400 grain bullet, velocity at 2600fps, receives a "penetration index" of 146. The "shock power index" is a mere 816.
I suppose the question could be asked, does the "Shock Power Index" really mean anything reguarding a bullet striking an animal? Does this "Penetration Index" mean squat, as far as the relating of getting the job done verses another caliber or weight bullet etc .
I know from my tests conducted in the back field and the stock tank full of water, that the .416 caliber with a 400 grain bullet will out penetrate both the other calibers above in or out of water.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 16th, 2008 01:44 PM |
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52nd Post |
chuckscap
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Hey Hi Ball and Phil, the die is cast. As Phil said, if you want a Capstick nothing else will do. I'm shipping out my rifle to Jim Dubell of Clearwater reboring tomorrow. He's going to rebore/rechamber my CZ Safari Classic from 375 H&H to 470 Capstick.
I'm sure it will come out fine.
Wish me luck,
Chuck
____________________
"There's a saying in prizefighting ... Everyone's got a plan until they get hit."
Michael Douglas "Ghost In The Darkness"
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| Posted: Thu Oct 16th, 2008 03:06 PM |
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53rd Post |
LilMag
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Chuckscap hats off to you and hope your rebore job works out just fine! It will make one heck of a hunting DG rifle for you in the future no doubt. You really have a nice looking rifle and thanks for showing us the picture.
On my next trip to Africa, I hope to take along my .470-Capstick that has a slightly longer chamber than original spec. Also will be taking my .416 Remington as well, it will pull double duty if need be shooting plains game of some sort. 
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 01:26 PM |
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54th Post |
chuckscap
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Thanks Hi Ball, good luck on your trip to Africa!
Chuck
____________________
"There's a saying in prizefighting ... Everyone's got a plan until they get hit."
Michael Douglas "Ghost In The Darkness"
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LilMag
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Chuckscap.......I just thougth I would let you know, that I used Hornady .475 in 400 grain XTP bullets to break my new Kreiger barrel in on that .470 Capstick. I shot them at 1400 & 1600 fps. Good Luck with your Capstick!
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chuckscap
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Hi Hi Ball, unfortunately I sent my rifle to Clearwater and the screw hole depth of my rear sight was too deep for a rebore, so I'm sending my rifle to the shop that does a lot of the CZ Custom Shop work for a rebarrel to 505 Gibbs. They gave me a very good price and it's a 1 in 10" twist McGowen barrel, so I plan to send in the rifle right after Christmas or a little before. Jim Dubell at Clearwater was great to work with though.
Regards,
Chuck
____________________
"There's a saying in prizefighting ... Everyone's got a plan until they get hit."
Michael Douglas "Ghost In The Darkness"
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12th, 2008 01:45 AM |
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57th Post |
LilMag
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Chuck, Roger on the rebarrel to .505 Gibbs! Where do you get the brass for reloading etc.? I have never seen any of that brass. I know that the .500 Jeff costs an arm & a leg to purchase. I had priced 500 Jeff loaded rounds once and they were like $35 dollars each for crying out loud.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 12th, 2008 04:23 AM |
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58th Post |
| Posted: Wed Dec 24th, 2008 04:44 AM |
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59th Post |
chuckscap
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Midway has brass also ...
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?pageNum=1&tabId=1&categoryId=9102&categoryString=9315***652***670***9013***
I'm having Harlan at Three Rivers Gunsmithing rebarrel / rechamber my CZ to 500 Gibbs right after the holidays. I'm having an extra (I already have one) recoil reducer put in the stock as well and a Pachmyer XLT recoil pad put on.
My Lee Classic Turret press won't work for the 505 Gibbs, I called Lee and asked. It's too bad because I really like the press. I'm looking for an RCBS AmmoMaster press to replace it. I really don't have room for 3 presses (I have a Dillon 650 for my pistol), so the Lee Classic Turret has to go, I'm sure someone at work will jump at it.
I'll keep you all posted. Hope you are all well and Merry Christmas!
Chuck
____________________
"There's a saying in prizefighting ... Everyone's got a plan until they get hit."
Michael Douglas "Ghost In The Darkness"
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25th, 2008 04:14 PM |
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60th Post |
PhilLozano
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chuckscap wrote: I'm having an extra (I already have one) recoil reducer put in the stock as well and a Pachmyer XLT recoil pad put on.
Chuck
What kind of recoil reducer do you use (in the stock) ? And do they work ?
____________________
Best,
Phil
Stay out of sight and downwind
Professional Hunter / Tanzania
http://www.go-on-safari.com
http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk
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