| Posted: Tue Aug 19th, 2008 11:52 PM |
|
41st Post |
nksmfamjp
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Sun Jun 29th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 53 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Phil, I probably don't know this type of rifle as well as you and the others. It is still a dream of mine. That said, wouldn't I just mount the scope farther forward. I got the idea for the shorter LOP from my AR. Sure I can pull the stock out to "5", but about "3" or "4" is much quicker to the shoulder. I do have to keep the scope foreward a bit. All in all, it is just to make the rifle quicker to the shoulder. Whenever I work with long LOP guns, I can't pull them to my shoulder quick. When I say long, I mean the ideal length for arm position, etc.
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 03:25 PM |
|
42nd Post |
swampshooter
Moderator
| Joined: | Sun Aug 3rd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 377 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
magna- porting doesn't increase muzzle blast near as much as a muzzle brake. i had my .458 magna- ported and am very happy with it. it does help keep the muzzle down and reduces recoil some allowing for much faster repeat shots and improved accuracy from field positions, ie. off-hand. i really can't tell the difference in muzzle blast although i know there has to be some. sadly, although I've hunted Africa with this rifle i can't say from experience how it would do as a stopping rifle. i am glad i didn't have to find out.
____________________
NRA Endowment member
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 21st, 2008 12:19 AM |
|
43rd Post |
nksmfamjp
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Sun Jun 29th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 53 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
I would agree with the comments about magnaporting. It is kind of like magic and doesn't have the muzzle blast of a true brake.
I have a muzzle brake on a 375 JDJ and it wakes up the whole county, but it has an amazing ability to keep the barrel down.
I have magnaporting on a snub nose 357 mag. It does better than I would expect 2 little holes to do without any more excessive blast or noise. The little 2.25" barrel has quite a bit of that on it's own. I have shot others w/o and I couldn't tell the difference in blast, but recoil was a bit better.
For a dangerous game rifle, I would use weight and mercury recoil reducers over a muzzle device. A 12 lb rifle can be carried all day. I do it.
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 21st, 2008 02:14 AM |
|
44th Post |
miestro_jerry
Administrator
back to top
|
My S&W 340 PD is MagnAPorted, and it helps alot with such a small 357 Mag.
Jerry
____________________
No Goats, No Glory
NRA Benefactor Member
Ohio Rifle and Pistol Association Member
The Cast Bullet Association
Bethesda Farmers and Sportsmen Club
ODNR Certified and Licensed Hunter
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 21st, 2008 02:31 AM |
|
45th Post |
PhilLozano
Board Founder
| Joined: | Mon May 23rd, 2005 |
| Location: | Arusha, Tanzania |
| Posts: | 382 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | big bore dangerous game | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
nksmfamjp wrote:
wouldn't I just mount the scope farther forward. I got the idea for the shorter LOP from my AR.
A 458 is not an AR. The recoil is just a bit stiffer. You use a short LOP and you will have a new outline of the scope where your eyebrow used to be, I think.
And take from me . . . . . . . it really hurts.
You can only move the scope so far forward.
____________________
Best,
Phil
Stay out of sight and downwind
Professional Hunter / Tanzania
http://www.go-on-safari.com
http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 21st, 2008 02:36 AM |
|
46th Post |
miestro_jerry
Administrator
back to top
|
Phil,
I agree with you on this, you only have so much practical space.
Jerry
____________________
No Goats, No Glory
NRA Benefactor Member
Ohio Rifle and Pistol Association Member
The Cast Bullet Association
Bethesda Farmers and Sportsmen Club
ODNR Certified and Licensed Hunter
|
fprefect
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Tue Aug 4th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 74 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | 22 PPC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
miestro_jerry wrote: I have played with some of these calibers and thet really whomp a sholder really good. But the 600 Nitro Express double rifle carries two 900grn bullets. Delivering about 7,500 pounds of energy at the muzzle and 5,500 pounds of energy at 100 Yards. This is what you call backup.
Loading this with 158 grains of H4831 makes this a brut of a rifle. People have made T/C Contender in this cartridge as well as revolvers.
http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2006/02/tc_in_600_nitro.html
http://www.vincelewis.net/60magnum.html
I hate shooting this thing in a rifle form, but a pistol?
When the elephant or the rhino is charging you, having the double rifle in this monster caliber is the best thing you can have, short of artillery.
Jerry
From a video I looked at about 6 months ago, I believe the T/C became a former T/C shortly after the firing pin contacted the primer. However the Pfeifer Zeliska revolver chambered for the .600 is viable functioning weapon producing about 1750 fps in muzzle vel. from the 15" barrel. But I would suspect attempting to aim a 15+ pound revolver at a charging rhino or whatever would probably negate the revolvers 5 round capacity.
fprefect
____________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move...Douglas Adams
|
miestro_jerry
Administrator
back to top
|
I would not be comfortable with a revolver in such a caliber, it may save your life, but break a few bones that the rifle wouldn't.
Jerry
____________________
No Goats, No Glory
NRA Benefactor Member
Ohio Rifle and Pistol Association Member
The Cast Bullet Association
Bethesda Farmers and Sportsmen Club
ODNR Certified and Licensed Hunter
|
fprefect
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Tue Aug 4th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 74 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | 22 PPC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
miestro_jerry wrote: I would not be comfortable with a revolver in such a caliber, it may save your life, but break a few bones that the rifle wouldn't.
Jerry
I really doubt the weapon was built with the purpose of being either a primary or backup gun for use on dangerous African game although I suspect there are a few folks with $16,000 to spend who will attempt to use it for exactly that purpose. I suppose it would do the job and as far as being dangerous to the shooter, with a muzzle brake and 15 1/2 pounds of weight, the recoil and muzzle blast can at least be tolerated and the 5 pound cylinder is believed to be plently strong enough to handle the pressures.
However, I would have to agree with you. The difficulties in aiming such a heavy pistol and the fact that the shorter barrel gives up over 300 fps in muzzle velocity would be enough to make me go for the double without a doubt. If you haven't seen a photo of the revolver check it out at http://www.funis2cool.com/unusual/pfeifer-zeliska-600-nitro-express-revolver.html There is also a video floating around of some idiot firing a 7 1/2 lb. T/C Contender chambered for the 600 Nitro. Needless to say, the gun was destroyed and had the shooter not moved the pistol slightly to the right before firing, the Contender would have impacted his head rather than the brick wall located about 20 ft in back of the shooter. Crazy people.
fprefect
Last edited on Sun Aug 9th, 2009 07:18 PM by fprefect
____________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move...Douglas Adams
|
miestro_jerry
Administrator
back to top
|
I have a T/C Contender Super 14 in 45-70 with a muzzle brake and it is not comfortable to shoot. My 444 Marlin Super 14 is a really handful to shoot, it is hotter than the 45-70.
There is a whole following of shooting Contenders and similar pistols in really heavy duty calibers for big game hunting. SSK has a lot of product for big game hunting that is basically a single shot pistol in some big honkin calibers.
http://www.sskindustries.com/contender.htm
People buy these hand cannons and some try to use them for hunting.
Jerry
____________________
No Goats, No Glory
NRA Benefactor Member
Ohio Rifle and Pistol Association Member
The Cast Bullet Association
Bethesda Farmers and Sportsmen Club
ODNR Certified and Licensed Hunter
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 10th, 2009 01:28 AM |
|
51st Post |
Hammer
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Sat Apr 8th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 68 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Among my many bad habits is collecting and shooting big bore rifles.
Have hunted African cape buffalo with a double-barrel 500 Nitro Express 3-1/4 with 570 grain Woodleighs. It will work.
Have also used 375 H&H, 378 Weatherby, 460 Weatherby, etc in Africa. They work too.
Have played with most of the 416s, 458s, 470s, 511s, 550, and even the 585 Nyati.
Know it is not necessarily in favor with African PHs, but think a slightly downloaded 460 Wby with 500 grain bullets between 2300 and 2400 fps will do fine against most buffalo and be controllable for many for a backup shot. Might also work on rhino and elephant. May have to think twice on charging bull prairie dogs.
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 10th, 2009 02:32 AM |
|
52nd Post |
miestro_jerry
Administrator
back to top
|
Remember those praire dogs shoot back, some times they shoot first.
Jerry
____________________
No Goats, No Glory
NRA Benefactor Member
Ohio Rifle and Pistol Association Member
The Cast Bullet Association
Bethesda Farmers and Sportsmen Club
ODNR Certified and Licensed Hunter
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 10th, 2009 04:56 AM |
|
53rd Post |
fprefect
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Tue Aug 4th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 74 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | 22 PPC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Hammer wrote: Among my many bad habits is collecting and shooting big bore rifles.
Have hunted African cape buffalo with a double-barrel 500 Nitro Express 3-1/4 with 570 grain Woodleighs. It will work.
Have also used 375 H&H, 378 Weatherby, 460 Weatherby, etc in Africa. They work too.
Have played with most of the 416s, 458s, 470s, 511s, 550, and even the 585 Nyati.
Know it is not necessarily in favor with African PHs, but think a slightly downloaded 460 Wby with 500 grain bullets between 2300 and 2400 fps will do fine against most buffalo and be controllable for many for a backup shot. Might also work on rhino and elephant. May have to think twice on charging bull prairie dogs.
Well if you're gonna have a bad habit, that might be near the top of my list. I said MIGHT. I gotta believe you have had to absorb a good bit of recoil to keep that habit alive, and I've heard that 378 Weatherby can put some serious whoop ass on one's shoulder, particularly if you have time to think about it for a bit before you finally squeeze the trigger. Don't know what to think about those darn prairie dogs, but with that kind of fire power even if you miss the dog, you can you should be able to do enough damage to the critter's underground prairie abode that they might decide to pack up and find a more peaceful neighborhood. Just for the record the most felt recoil I've experienced came from a 300 Weatherby and that was enough to quickly send me back to my bad habits, my 14 + pound 22 and 6mm PPC benchrest rifles where the felt recoil is pretty darn close to zero.
fprefect
____________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move...Douglas Adams
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 10th, 2009 02:25 PM |
|
54th Post |
miestro_jerry
Administrator
back to top
|
One item to get for the big bores, Limbsaver. They work.
Jerry
____________________
No Goats, No Glory
NRA Benefactor Member
Ohio Rifle and Pistol Association Member
The Cast Bullet Association
Bethesda Farmers and Sportsmen Club
ODNR Certified and Licensed Hunter
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 10th, 2009 02:39 PM |
|
55th Post |
Hammer
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Sat Apr 8th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 68 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Recoil pads are certainly a help.
The best recoil reducer is gun weight.
We are always finding ways and paying for new weight reduction in guns. Making parts out of titanium. Cutting away metal here and there. Graphite stocks.
Ever notice how heavy the muskets and rifles that Lewis & Clark carried across the continent -- twice.
For two weeks I walked across Botswana with a 65 year old PH who just weeks before had Achilles heel surgery. He carried a 14 pound double and ammo the whole time. He never complained once.
An extra pound of gun helps recoil a lot.
.
Last edited on Mon Aug 10th, 2009 03:14 PM by Hammer
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 10th, 2009 03:50 PM |
|
56th Post |
miestro_jerry
Administrator
back to top
|
Hammer I agree with you, I have a 357 Mag, it is a S&W 340 PD, it is 12 ounces, it is a real bear to shoot, but very easy to carry every day concealed. AS that I am not a LEO, the chances of me drawing my gun are slim, but it is necessary for me to carry when I am working with gem stones.
I like my rifles meaty, helps with the recoil. from my Ultra Mag on up to my Nitros I have limb savers on them they do help.
Jerry
____________________
No Goats, No Glory
NRA Benefactor Member
Ohio Rifle and Pistol Association Member
The Cast Bullet Association
Bethesda Farmers and Sportsmen Club
ODNR Certified and Licensed Hunter
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 10th, 2009 03:53 PM |
|
57th Post |
Hammer
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Sat Apr 8th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 68 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
But we must remember that all classic guns have checkered steel buttplates.
.
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 10th, 2009 05:02 PM |
|
58th Post |
fprefect
HB Pro Staff
| Joined: | Tue Aug 4th, 2009 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 74 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | 22 PPC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Another factor in "felt recoil" is muzzle velocity. I had the chance to shoot both of S & W's new magnums and although the muzzle energy between the two loads I shot were nearly the same, the 460's muzzle velocity was several hundred ft/sec. higher and from my standpoint, even though both produced the same amount of "recoil energy", the 460 bordered on the unpleasant side, feeling more like a quick violent snap, while the 500, although producing about the same recoil energy and a considerable amount of perceived recoil, seemed smoother and less violent in nature. Used to think it was my imagination, but the 'physics' predicts exactly what I felt.
As best as I can recall both revolvers were equipped with 8 3/8 barrels with muzzle brakes.
fprefect
____________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move...Douglas Adams
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 10th, 2009 05:24 PM |
|
59th Post |
miestro_jerry
Administrator
back to top
|
We must also understand how to hold these thunder boomers, he have to work your way into the right stance or these rifles will let you know how much muscle they have.
I can hip fire most of my rifles, like 22s, 223 up to my 30-30, after that you have to curl in to the rifle or it will hurt.
Jerry
____________________
No Goats, No Glory
NRA Benefactor Member
Ohio Rifle and Pistol Association Member
The Cast Bullet Association
Bethesda Farmers and Sportsmen Club
ODNR Certified and Licensed Hunter
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 11th, 2009 02:48 AM |
|
60th Post |
swampshooter
Moderator
| Joined: | Sun Aug 3rd, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 377 |
| Photo: | | | Are you a handloader?: | Yes | | Favorite type of cartridge to load?: | I load everything! | | My favorite chambering is:: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
back to top
|
Regarding fprefect's comment about percieved recoil,I've noticed the same thing, thought the .500 S&W really didn't recoil near as bad as I thought it would.
____________________
NRA Endowment member
|
| Current time is 05:30 AM | Page:   1 2 3 4   |
|
