| Posted: Sat Feb 7th, 2009 12:24 AM |
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deaddog
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I'm off to Namibia in June. Hornady Interlocks have always worked for me in accuracy and expansion. The expirence I have had with Barnes, Trophy Bonded BC's an other so call premium bullets is limited in comparison but when I have worked with them the results have been less than ideal. I called the Hornady factory and asked for tech support. I told them my plan, what bullet and speed, animal etc. and they said that that's what they made them for. While this wasn't a salesman I was talking to, I did perceive a bit of bias. I understand that if you push them too fast and shoot something too close that they can come apart but I am working with rather sedate loads of either <2500 fps in a 250gr sp .358 or my back-up gun using a 190gr sp .308 at 2900fps. Kudu, Gemsbok, Zebra, warthog will be the targets. Anybody had a bullet of any type fail on one of these animals? I really don't want to swicth bullets but maybe someone can convince me?
DD
Last edited on Sat Feb 7th, 2009 12:25 AM by deaddog
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| Posted: Mon Mar 2nd, 2009 02:25 AM |
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416RigbyHunter
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I don't think you'll have any problems with the Interlokt's for the game you mention, but I would prefer the Interbond bullet if it were me.
Kudu are a big animal, and tough, so you'll need a bullet that holds together well for good penetration. It's my understanding that a lot of plains game are shot at close ranges, rather than the long ranges that 'plains game' infers, I could be wrong about this, but that's what I've been told.
All the other animals you mention should be dispatched easily with conventional bullets, but a bonded core bullet will have that 'extra insurance' that may be needed if a dicey situation crops up. As an example, a rear end raking shot on a wounded animal that's fleeing at 80mph. I wouldn't trust a conventional bullet for this, I would demand a 'premium' bullet if I was on safari.
You must remember that the cost of the ammo is the least in terms of a safari hunt, use the best up front, and all will go well, if not excellently.
Just my 2cents.
Cheers.
416RigbyHunter.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 2nd, 2009 04:57 AM |
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PhilLozano
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I like Swift A-Frames, they are very good bullets. Woodleigh's are very good bullets as well.
Personally, I would not choose the Hornady's.
My choice for hunting would be ~
Swift
Woodleigh
North Fork
Nosler Partition
In the 'medium' I am building, I will shoot 250 grain Swifts at pretty much everything.
Some shots can be long in Namibia.
Weight retention is, IMO, pretty important when huntiong in Africa.
I would also tend to go heavy for caliber bullets (as you have listed).
Zebra and Gemsbuck are the toughest of the animals you listed. Zebra are pretty darn tough.
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Phil
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| Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 03:43 AM |
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TONK
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Hello Phil! I missed your posts but had PC problems and such. Now am going by the user name TONK, I am sure you remember "Lil Mag" from past posts.
Deaddog....I would listen to what Phil has to say concerning those bullets OK. I been there to and found out the hardway, that African game animals need more than a good bullet, they need to be taken with an excellent bullet.
My first PH told me to use Trophy Bonded Bear Claws 10 years ago but I went against the grain at first. I shot a Zebra with a 190 grain Rem. Core-Lokt from a .300 Win mag. I thought that Zebra would never stop running. The shot was spot on too!
The next animal I shot was a Blue Wildebeast and I got the same show from this 550 lb animal. It was off to the races in a hurry. The 3rd animal I shot got a taste of TBBC bullets and all was nice and calm after the shot. The animal was a 600 or so pound kudu and it never went 10 yards.
Now if something went wrong with your new automobile, would you ask the salesman or the mechanic that worked on those models every day for 20 years? I rest my case and hold my ears wide open to what my PH has to give in advice.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 09:15 PM |
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PhilLozano
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African animals are unbelievably tough.
Shot placement is a very large part of it, but not the only part of it.
Diameter and bullet weight count for a lot !
Swifts, Woodleigh and other premium bullets are a very small cost compared to your safari. And a pretty good insurance policy as well on your 'safari investment' (IMO).
You for sure can kill them with non premium bullets. A two hour tracking job and you will have your trophy. Another animal, another tracking job to your trophy.
It does not alway go that way, but even if non premium bullets cost you a total of 3 hours tracking, wouldn't you rather be hunting for those 3 hours ?
Safaris have a finite time frame. . . . . . . . . . and it will fly by. Enjoy it while you are there.
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Phil
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| Posted: Tue Mar 3rd, 2009 09:20 PM |
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PhilLozano
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As a side note. None of the premium bullets I mentioned would win many accuracy awards. They are accurate enough.
However, the terminal performance is much better than 'average' bullets
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Phil
Stay out of sight and downwind
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| Posted: Wed Mar 4th, 2009 02:00 AM |
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deaddog
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Thank you for all the replies. I'm thinking pretty hard about it. It's not the cost, it's the accuracy that's holding me back.
DD
Last edited on Wed Mar 4th, 2009 02:00 AM by deaddog
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| Posted: Wed Mar 4th, 2009 11:11 PM |
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PhilLozano
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One thing some people don't think about, regarding the toughness of bullets.
The bullet is rotating about 3,000 revolutions per second (from the rifling with a 1 - 10 twist, 180,000 RPM's), so it has quite a bit of stress on it from the rotation as well as the fps velocity.
Additionally, if the bullet does have any tissue of the animal that contacts the side or shank of the bullet, the bullet will want to slide away from the pressure (it will take the path of least resistance). If the jacket is 'soft', it may flatten. If it does, it is not going in a straight line through the animal.
That is pretty much a 'worst case' for a bullet.
You can aim it, but as soon as it leaves the barrel, it's on it's own, for good or bad.
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Phil
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11th, 2009 02:36 AM |
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Blackhat
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Tonk, on the game you mentioned shooting with the Rem. Core-LOks, did you find any of the bullets, if so what did they look like? Please give more details. I have never been to Africa or shot anything tougher than Elk, but I can't believe the core-loks came apart or shed anymore weight than a TBBearClaw would have which would have resulted in the same bullet weight on the far side. Or did the core-loks open too fast and not penetrate?
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12th, 2009 03:52 PM |
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PhilLozano
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Blackhat wrote: I can't believe the core-loks came apart or shed anymore weight than a TBBearClaw
Trophy Bonded bullets are very tough. Core-loks, not so much.
TB bullets will retain more than 85% of their original weight even on close shots. I don't think core-loks will do that.
Until you start using 'premium' hunting bullets all the time, you will not appreaciate their additional cost.
However, I will say, that many of the factory bullets work quite well for non dangerous, thin skinned game that we encounter in the U.S.
Being that this is the African section of the forum, I will respond as I would to any of my clients. When there is only one shot and you must take it or go without, for the most part, factory bullets won't get the job done.
As I have posted before, the (soft point) bullets I like, in no particular order are:
Swift
Trophy Bonded
North Fork
Woodleigh
Nosler Partitions
All are very good bullets.
The Nosler Partition is quite a bit better than the average hunting bullet. It is not however nearly as tough a bullet as the others listed.
When hunting large game, what I want from a bullet is - double of caliber, not so much expansion as to expand more than 1/2 the length of the bullet (perferable, not quite 1/2), weight retention, straight line penetration and an exit hole.
Can't always get an exit, however when recovering the bullets listed above, they all have performed pretty well.
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Phil
Stay out of sight and downwind
Professional Hunter / Tanzania
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12th, 2009 04:01 PM |
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Blackhat
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Phil, Good evening there, I believe. Can you be more specific as to what you have seen happen to the Rem. CoreLokts? I get the notion that they lose a lot of there weight. I have never weighed them after recovery, if there is a recovery, but I have never seen them not completely hold together with absolutely no indication of seperation.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12th, 2009 05:21 PM |
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swampshooter
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I've also seen core lokts come apart. The new core lokts (past 20 years or so) are not as good as they were 30 or 40 years ago. Years ago they had a thicker jacket and were slower to expand. Phil's advice is right on. When you compare the cost of premium bullets with the cost of your hunt, it is a very small percentage and very good insurance. The core-lokts, Hornady's interlock and Speers hot core and others in this price range are just standard cup and core bullets, very good bullets, but not premium and by no means do they approach the reliable performance of those listed in Phil's post. If you don't believe me, cut one in two and examine it, or wait until you learn the hard way by loosing a fine animal on an expensive hunt. These premium bullets are normally not necessary or desireable on deer sized game though, but are necessary on game exceeding 300 pounds or so, especially when using a magnum or other high velocity cartridge. Last edited on Wed Aug 12th, 2009 05:23 PM by swampshooter
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12th, 2009 07:00 PM |
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PhilLozano
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swampshooter wrote: I've also seen core lokts come apart. The new core lokts (past 20 years or so) are not as good as they were 30 or 40 years ago. Years ago they had a thicker jacket and were slower to expand. Phil's advice is right on. When you compare the cost of premium bullets with the cost of your hunt, it is a very small percentage and very good insurance. The core-lokts, Hornady's interlock and Speers hot core and others in this price range are just standard cup and core bullets, very good bullets, but not premium and by no means do they approach the reliable performance of those listed in Phil's post. If you don't believe me, cut one in two and examine it, or wait until you learn the hard way by loosing a fine animal on an expensive hunt. These premium bullets are normally not necessary or desireable on deer sized game though, but are necessary on game exceeding 300 pounds or so, especially when using a magnum or other high velocity cartridge.
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Best,
Phil
Stay out of sight and downwind
Professional Hunter / Tanzania
http://www.go-on-safari.com
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