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124 gr RN plated with HS6 9mm
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 Posted: Sun Jan 20th, 2013 10:02 PM
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catnip1970
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Anyone have a recipe for this?  Hodgdon doesn't give load data for HS6 for this weight in lead or plated.  What's a good starting charge?  I'm looking at 1.135 OAL.  Hodgdon also indicates a 1.169 OAL but everything I've read indicates that for the G19 this is too long of an OAL.  So, to sum up...
Case: Winchester and a few range pick ups of various make.
Powder: HS6
Primer: Wolf SRPs (all I could find locally)
OAL: Open to suggestions
Bullet: 124gr RN plated (HSM is the name brand... again, all I could find locally)
Pistol: G19



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Humility is not thinking less of oneself. It is thinking of ones self less.


 Posted: Sun Jan 20th, 2013 10:34 PM
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OldStuffer
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catnip1970 wrote:
Anyone have a recipe for this?  Hodgdon doesn't give load data for HS6 for this weight in lead or plated.  What's a good starting charge?  I'm looking at 1.135 OAL.  Hodgdon also indicates a 1.169 OAL but everything I've read indicates that for the G19 this is too long of an OAL.  So, to sum up...
Case: Winchester and a few range pick ups of various make.
Powder: HS6
Primer: Wolf SRPs (all I could find locally)
OAL: Open to suggestions
Bullet: 124gr RN plated (HSM is the name brand... again, all I could find locally)
Pistol: G19


More justification to aquire as many data sources as possible.

My Sierra manual says 6-6.7gr.

Sierra also loaded theirs to 1.12"

1.169 is maximum length specification for 9mmP, unless for some asanine reason Glock decided not to account for the possibility of chambering maximum-length ammo in it, 1.169" SHOULD FUNCTION in it.
Usually 145/147gr stuff is loaded out to maximum length, and a whole lot of police forces would like to forget their experiences with 147gr Subsonic JHP a decade ago......

Now, that is a pretty darned long length for a 124gr bullet. That doesn't mean it can't be done successfully. My 9mmP hates short OAL ammo, so my 115gr maximum-effort JHP is loaded out to 1.155", and THAT leaves not a whole lot of bullet inside the case. :cool:
The gun likes it, the round works very well, 1320fps might be good in a bad situation, the gun is happy, so I am happy



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I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


 Posted: Sun Jan 20th, 2013 10:49 PM
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catnip1970
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Thanks, Oldstuffer! We're brand new to the reloading scene...and we picked the absolute worst time to get started it seems since the more popular components are nearly non-existent locally. We're getting by on what we can find until stock catches back up to demand (or demand moderates again). We'll probably try 6.3 gr HS6 @ 1.12" with the 124 and see how that goes. My lyman manual doesn't list a 124 gr bullet at all. I see many more manuals in my future. I'll give this recipe a go tomorrow after work and post results.



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 Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2013 12:27 AM
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OldStuffer
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125gr bullet is a 124gr bullet, one single grain (or 2 as in the case of 145/147gr) means nothing.

You can load 125gr bullets on 130gr data, and understand that you may be able to use an additional couple tenths of a grain of powder due to the lighter bullet.


Now, while it is NOT advised to use lighter bullet data (say, 115gr data to load 125gr bullets), if you put some inteligent thought into it, the same powders will work but the charge needs to be REDUCED to deal with the added weight of the heavier bullet.
The hard guess is "reduced how much"?

Powder makers have online data, many have downloadable data. Save those .pdf's to a disk for future reference anytime.
Bullet makers have data, download and save THOSE also.
Get as much free data as you can lay your hands on, buy what you can afford, even if it is not the newest most current printing.
While something 30 years old may be of dubious use unless you have a common cartridge, it still has some usefulness, and what was just printed yesterday is really only "better" than the same book printed 5 years ago if it includes a cartridge you need data for that is not in the older one (like the RUM's and WSM/WSSM's and so forth).

Buying 1 or 2 revisions back saves you a lot of money yet costs you virtually nothing in usefulness.

And "Plated" equals "cast lead" as far as data is concerned. The plating is not nearly as thick or hard as gilding metal jacketing. In many cartridges the difference means little. 9mmP CAN get enough velocity in the lighter bullets that the difference matters.
900fps in a .45 doesn't matter which bullet mostly.
My 1300+fps 9mmP load, I can only imagine the leading from 115gr cast.
The "general wisdom" is keep cast under 1000fps, so plated too.



____________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


 Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2013 12:41 AM
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OldStuffer
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I think "now" is a good time, maybe better than when I started.
I was taught to load one single shotgun load by my dad 35 years ago.
When I expanded to other loads, I had to buy and read books, on a really small budget.
When I started loading metallic (.308 Winchester, 22 yrs ago) I had to buy books and read, and think, a LOT to try to make sure I was doing right.
Components were actually less available IMO because they had to be available locally for purchase. Sporting Goods Stores mostly, and they didn't carry a lot of variety, especially where equipment is concerned.

Sure as heck didn't have a bunch of experienced folks like here to ask questions to. :)

We'll get ya squared away. :)
Best of luck to ya.



____________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


 Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2013 01:17 AM
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catnip1970
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Thank again, Oldstuffer. I don't mind doing some thinking on a regular basis...it's almost a hobby of mine. :wink:
By "now" I mean this six month window that we're in where folks are buying up things they'll never use "just in case". Makes it frustrating for a new loader.
I'm 42 and remember well the days when information required much more than a quick google search to turn up answers. I feel very lucky to have the experience of the folks on the board available so freely.

You stated that the charge had to be REDUCED to deal with the additional weight of a heavier bullet...is this because the bullet being heavier creates higher pressure before it begins moving out of the case?



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In our struggle for freedom truth is the only weapon we have. The Dalai Lama

Humility is not thinking less of oneself. It is thinking of ones self less.


 Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2013 01:35 AM
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OldStuffer
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Yes.

Thinking cap here. ;)

Bullet weight is really INERTIA.

The gunpowder burns pretty much exactly the same under a heavy bullet as it does under a light one.

The heavy one will take just a fraction longer for it to start moving, and will start moving/accelerating slower, due to it's greater inertia.
As a second potential, the "bearing surface" where it rubs the bore may be longer, making for more drag (I don't deny this is possible, some people give it much more importance than I do).
Also, if loaded to the same OAL, the heavier bullet will reduce case volume under the bullet. The same powder, burning the same rate, in a smaller area, puts more pressure into that smaller area.

Look at the data you have, you will find quite a few powders for 125gr bullets, that you will also find for 115's, 100's, but you will find larger powder charges, to "balance" the faster bullet leaving while the powder tries to keep pressure on it to drive it.
Same thing you find 130's, and 140+'s, with smaller charges, to not overpressure the cartridge before the bigger bullets move, and move slower.

No matter which gunpowder is used, most of the time, it is all burned up before the bullet has moved more than an inch or 2, in handguns often before the bullet even moved at all.
It's all relative, even "really slow" gunpowder burns awful darned fast, just not quite as fast as "fast-burning" gunpowder.



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I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


 Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2013 01:35 AM
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mtman714
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1.169 is what I've used in three different 9mm including the g19, I don't like HS6 it doesn't meter well, meaning it throws different weight charges using a powder disperser, you just about have to weight each one, a real pain in the pistol,I've had great success with AA # 7, IT WAS MADE EXPRESSLY FOR THE 9MM NATO,USE IT IN 3 different 9mm,meters great fills the case, I use Oregon Trails 124gr round nose, Fed case, CCI small pistol, 7.5grs out of Accurate # 2 manual.



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 Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2013 10:07 PM
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catnip1970
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Ran a test run this evening. 6.5 gr HS6 at 1.120 and 1.130. Five rounds of each. All fed, fired, and ejected fine. Those set to 1.120 showed signs of overpressure (primers were either overly dented or just barely pierced) but were very accurate...well, as accurate as I am anyway. Those set for 1.130 worked like a charm. No overpressure, accurate, reliable cycling, and clean. This is our first official workup as reloaders. Looking forward to the next recipe! Thanks, Oldstuffer for your help.:roflmao:



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Humility is not thinking less of oneself. It is thinking of ones self less.


 Posted: Mon Jan 21st, 2013 11:06 PM
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OldStuffer
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Any time catnip. :)



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I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


 Posted: Tue Jan 22nd, 2013 12:22 AM
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Rickster
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The Hodgdon website shows data for the 125 grain LCN (lead conical nose) bullet. I don't think you would see any noticeable difference in pressures comparing your plated bullet to their unplated pill though 1 grain heavier. The spread they list for HS-6 with the 125 grainer is 5.9 to 6.6 grains. Some loading handbooks go all the way to 7.5 grains or even a bit higher.  One of my favorite accuracy loads with 120 to 125 grain cast bullets in the 9 Luger is 5.5 grains of HS-6.  Combine caution and common sense with your new hobby and you are in for some real fun.



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 Posted: Tue Jan 22nd, 2013 01:45 AM
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catnip1970
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Caution and common sense are two items which I try to keep stocked here. Works out well with my wife and I reloading together...she exhibits a few OCD traits at times and this comes in handy at both the bench and the range. Now that we have a good working, accurate load set up we can begin to "play" with the load a bit to see what's most accurate. I can't imagine 7.5 gr of HS6 in the 9mm. I imagine her G19 would feel more like my SR1911 with that load!



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 Posted: Fri Jan 25th, 2013 12:40 PM
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yetavon
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nice read and info...just added some HS-6 to my supply for my 9 and Mak....



 Posted: Mon Jan 28th, 2013 07:57 PM
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Doom
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Help. New to board and am seeking some help with IMR PB and 125 Gr LRN. The Hodgdon data barely cycles my 9MM while other powders work fine even at min loadings. Have run 2.9 (no cycleing or ejection) to 3.4 and 3.4 grs is still weak. COL is 1.111" with Magnus bullet. Any one have a load or reference other than Hodgdon? If someone could repost this as a seperate Topic I would appreaciate it.

Last edited on Mon Jan 28th, 2013 08:06 PM by Doom



 Posted: Mon Jan 28th, 2013 10:15 PM
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OldStuffer
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Doom wrote:
Help. New to board and am seeking some help with IMR PB and 125 Gr LRN. The Hodgdon data barely cycles my 9MM while other powders work fine even at min loadings. Have run 2.9 (no cycleing or ejection) to 3.4 and 3.4 grs is still weak. COL is 1.111" with Magnus bullet. Any one have a load or reference other than Hodgdon? If someone could repost this as a seperate Topic I would appreaciate it.
Minimum loading is ALWAYS a toss-up in autoloading weapons.

The current 9mm load I have is a minimum under a 145gr LRN, and it cycles, just barely, UNTIL THE WEATHER GETS COLD.
3.3gr Universal.

If I turn the pressure up more, bad lube smoking gets even worse, changing bullets soon on this one, once I use them up.

My deer rifle WILL NOT FEED minimum loads, at all.

I've never run complete minimums in my .45's because competition rules force a minimum power level, that is NOT a start-level load.


If miniumums don't work, power it up to get it to function, I don't advise exceeding the maximums.....



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I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


 Posted: Wed Jan 30th, 2013 01:28 PM
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Doom
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Thanks for the input.



 Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2013 07:34 PM
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JackD
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@OldStuffer - doesn't the weapon that the load is being fired from get incorporated as one of the 'variables' that make up an acceptable load? I found that my S&W 39 favored the 147gr JHP (win231, cci, fed) vs anything else, but my G26 seems to do well with 124gr JRN. I'm starting into a loading using 115gr hard cast (badman bullets) with Win231, CCI #500, and Fed casings to see how they run in a G26 and G19. I also got a sample of the 185 gr SWC from badman to try out in my G21, but am still pondering over a load for that.



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 Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2013 07:39 PM
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JackD
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@catnip - I hear you on the availability. I've got 0 brass in house to continue at the moment (9mm/.45acp) and can't get a single casing until some time in March. I went to the local gun show this weekend and after throwing down $13 to get in the door, came away with a box of shotshell primers (the last one) and a box of 215M primers for my .300 Win Mag load (when I can ever find brass for that). It seems that the supply has certainly exceeded the demand for a while... :bawlbag:



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 Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2013 07:49 PM
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JackD
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@mtman - I looked up the AA #7 powder on Accurate's site. Their description seems to differ a bit - "No. 7 is an excellent choice for high performance semi-auto handguns such as the 357 Sig, 38 Super, and 40 S&W."
Although their tables do list this same powder for a few 9mm and .45acp loads (mostly lead, but there is a jacketed listing in 9mm with a TAC-XT bullet). The pressures/speeds seem a bit high for lead in these loads, based on what I've read so far...



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 Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2013 09:36 PM
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OldStuffer
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JackD wrote:
@OldStuffer - doesn't the weapon that the load is being fired from get incorporated as one of the 'variables' that make up an acceptable load?

Of course.

Some guns are finicky, some seem to shoot almost anything well.

My BAR shoots everything loaded lightly very poorly, until pressures get near max, then it seems to stack everything.

My 9mmP in recent load development with the same 145gr LRN bullet and 4 powders, 2 powders threw 2/3 or more keyholes, the other 2 shot straight bullets.

My .45's have seemed pretty omnivorous, shooting everything I have put in them very well, LSWC, LRN, JRN, JHP, medium load, stout, or maximum.

So far my .380 has been very easy to please, but much work is not finished in load development or just shooting.



____________________
I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.


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