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8X58R Danish
 Moderated by: woodsman777, Timberghozt
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 Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 04:23 PM
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Vol423
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I just bought three Remington Rolling Block rifles out of Sweden in 8X58R Danish.  I just ordered  formed Bertram cases.    I know about the overload data published on some sites, so I'll steer clear of that.  I'm planning to use lead bullets anyway so high velocity isn't my goal.  I'll keep one the rifles with the original barrel and rebarrel the others into BPCR target guns. I'd like to hear from you about loads you have  developed for your rifles.  I haven't slugged the bores yet, but I have .318 and .323 bullets so I'm hoping to use one of those diameters.



 Posted: Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 04:56 PM
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Vol423 wrote: I just bought three Remington Rolling Block rifles out of Sweden in 8X58R Danish.  I just ordered  formed Bertram cases.    I know about the overload data published on some sites, so I'll steer clear of that.  I'm planning to use lead bullets anyway so high velocity isn't my goal.  I'll keep one the rifles with the original barrel and rebarrel the others into BPCR target guns. I'd like to hear from you about loads you have  developed for your rifles.  I haven't slugged the bores yet, but I have .318 and .323 bullets so I'm hoping to use one of those diameters.

Vol423 - first, let me welcome you to the Forum.

The 8X58Rmm Danish Krag originally fired a 237gr ball @1968fps. This was the military load fired in a M89 Krag-Jorgensen BA rifle.

Also used by Norway in a Remington carbine..

Norma increased the loading to 2780fps-159gr bullet; 2740fps-198gr sp bullet

European loads were held to 42Kpsi-45Kpsi..

Sorry 06(I edited this till I find out if those loads were over pressure you mentioned)
TG

Can't find any cast loads, but you may be able to extrapolate from some of the above..

C.O.W. lists bullet diameter as .322". Probably be a good idea to slug the bores.

Of course, all precautions should be observed if you decide to use the above loads..

Good shooting:thumbs:




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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 02:39 PM
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72coupe
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I use 10 to 14 grains of Red Dot or Rex 1 in the 8X56 Hungarian with a 220 grain cast bullet of .331 diameter.

I also use the same load in 3006, 308 and 7.62X54 Russian. Velocity for all is around 1600 fps and is a very mild load.



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 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 08:23 PM
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Vol423
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The data 3006 cites above is exactly the erroneous data I was referring to.  It's probably wise to delete his  posting before someone blows himself up with it. I think the source is probably Cartridges of the World by Barnes.  COTW shows incorrect Norma factory load data and grossly excessive load data for 8x58R Danish in the application of the m/1889 Swedish rolling block rifle.

These data for the 8x58R Danish far exceed safe load levels. In most cases these mentioned load levels exceed .30-06 load data and we must ask if they exceed the listed chamber pressures as shown in Lyman 47th Edition Reloading manual. Considering the level loaded by Norma Precision AB was in the neighborhood of 28,000 psi and the recently published data suggests pressures in the range of 48,000 to 50,000 psi we must be very concerned in this matter.



 Posted: Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 10:52 PM
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Vol423 wrote: The data 3006 cites above is exactly the erroneous data I was referring to.  It's probably wise to delete his  posting before someone blows himself up with it. I think the source is probably Cartridges of the World by Barnes.  COTW shows incorrect Norma factory load data and grossly excessive load data for 8x58R Danish in the application of the m/1889 Swedish rolling block rifle.

These data for the 8x58R Danish far exceed safe load levels. In most cases these mentioned load levels exceed .30-06 load data and we must ask if they exceed the listed chamber pressures as shown in Lyman 47th Edition Reloading manual. Considering the level loaded by Norma Precision AB was in the neighborhood of 28,000 psi and the recently published data suggests pressures in the range of 48,000 to 50,000 psi we must be very concerned in this matter.




I believe that the quoted info from COW should be referred to the editors of that publication.

In addtion, Norma should be contacted about their pressure figures as well.

Goes to show - be damn careful about whom you quote... It won't happen again..

Just curious, Vol 423, where did you get the 28Kpsi figure?? 

Thank you for putting me straight...:rolleyes:



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 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 03:51 AM
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Watergoat
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As stated above, this is never a high pressure round. Be discreet. All the rifles are fairly weak by modern standards, and the some of the steel is 130 years old. I read somewhere that the 8x56R Austrian is nearly the same case, but loaded with a larger (.330) bullet. I think Graf has PRVI/Hornady cases, which are a lot cheaper than Bertram. If I ever find a set of dies cheap I will try loading for my Danish Krag. So many projects.....



 Posted: Mon Aug 24th, 2009 09:05 AM
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Timberghozt
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3006 user wrote: Vol423 wrote: The data 3006 cites above is exactly the erroneous data I was referring to.  It's probably wise to delete his  posting before someone blows himself up with it. I think the source is probably Cartridges of the World by Barnes.  COTW shows incorrect Norma factory load data and grossly excessive load data for 8x58R Danish in the application of the m/1889 Swedish rolling block rifle.

These data for the 8x58R Danish far exceed safe load levels. In most cases these mentioned load levels exceed .30-06 load data and we must ask if they exceed the listed chamber pressures as shown in Lyman 47th Edition Reloading manual. Considering the level loaded by Norma Precision AB was in the neighborhood of 28,000 psi and the recently published data suggests pressures in the range of 48,000 to 50,000 psi we must be very concerned in this matter.




I believe that the quoted info from COW should be referred to the editors of that publication.

In addtion, Norma should be contacted about their pressure figures as well.

Goes to show - be damn careful about whom you quote... It won't happen again..

Just curious, Vol 423, where did you get the 28Kpsi figure?? 

Thank you for putting me straight...:rolleyes:

 
06, no worries my friend.You went out of your way to look up a published load for a member here.Thats a good thing in my book.
I can`t faulty you in any way for being a good guy that wants to help out a fella that has a question.The only fault I see at all lies with the book ,Cartridges of the World giving dangerous load data.
I think their publishers oughta know they are giving a recipe for a tragic accident to happen...:wink:
06, its all good my friend:thumbs:
TG



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 Posted: Fri Sep 18th, 2009 11:36 AM
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Dutch51
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Vol423 wrote: The data 3006 cites above is exactly the erroneous data I was referring to.  It's probably wise to delete his  posting before someone blows himself up with it. I think the source is probably Cartridges of the World by Barnes.  COTW shows incorrect Norma factory load data and grossly excessive load data for 8x58R Danish in the application of the m/1889 Swedish rolling block rifle.

These data for the 8x58R Danish far exceed safe load levels. In most cases these mentioned load levels exceed .30-06 load data and we must ask if they exceed the listed chamber pressures as shown in Lyman 47th Edition Reloading manual. Considering the level loaded by Norma Precision AB was in the neighborhood of 28,000 psi and the recently published data suggests pressures in the range of 48,000 to 50,000 psi we must be very concerned in this matter.


I am very glad to see this information being spread around to various forums. But I would like for the link to be included so that readers could reference the entire bit of information on this issue.

Dutchman's treatise on the 8x58R Danish in the 1889 Swedish rolling block

I periodically google this cartridge to see where its being discussed and if possible I join that forum and spread the message. With so many Swedish 1889 rifles coming into the U.S. in the last 9 years.... eventually we're going to hear about a death.

Not if I can help it!



14 shots, 10 shots in one hole. Surprised me, too.



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Siskiyou County, Calif



 Posted: Fri Sep 18th, 2009 11:44 AM
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Vol423
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Dutch51,

Where did you get the wood for the roller? That really sets the old girl off. All three of mine are "sporterized" and could use good wood.



 Posted: Fri Sep 18th, 2009 12:20 PM
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Dutch51
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The stocks were done by a friend in Ohio. He got the wood there so I'm sure it is native Ohio walnut. Very pretty.







Dutch

Last edited on Fri Sep 18th, 2009 12:22 PM by Dutch51



 Posted: Fri Sep 18th, 2009 02:11 PM
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Be sure and slug your barrels before you get started. Mine slugs at .318.

I gave up on trying to make this one shoot and rebarreled it. The Bertram brass is pretty crappy stuff. I believe better brass could be had by reforming fresh WW 7.62x54 (it'll be a tad short) or trimming the rims and forming from Starline 45-90. Or as an alternative to trimming the rims maybe just have the rim recess enlarged. Someone else also mentioned once they used the Hornady 8x56r brass.

 Powders , I believe that unique is way to fast for that bottlenecked cartridge that large at the base. 2400,5744,4227,4198 etc for cast bullets, and probably 3031,4895 would be much better choices .

You'll likely want to get ahold of Lone Star Guns and get the lighter trigger springs, those heavy military springs are the squirts for trying to get the most accuracy.

 Good luck have fun and keep us posted on your progress. As you've seen already there's not alot of credable data out there on the old gem,so you're pretty much on a wing and a prayer. I may have another one of those ol Danes coming via a big trade deal. If it does show up here I promise to work with the thing a bit more, as I believe it would be a really neat Schuetzen type rifle.



 Posted: Mon Dec 23rd, 2013 08:37 PM
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I recently read an article on the8x58r.
The author tried .45-90, had to be trimmed and have the rim turned down, .45-70, was a bit short and had to have the rim trimmed down and 8x56r case is a bit short and a bit small at the head.
All worked for him.
He sized with a Lee 8x56r die to full length resize and sized the neck with the WSM .323 die.
The correct die set is available, but is very expensive.
Could likely neck size with an 8x57 collet type die.
Another good candidate for cast loads in the range of 1500-2000 fps.
Target or game getter with a nice flat nosed cast bullet.

Last edited on Mon Dec 23rd, 2013 08:38 PM by drinks



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