| Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 01:24 AM |
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hawkeye1
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I am looking for a good load for the 45/70 with cast 500 grain bullets. Has anyone found any data for this bullet? I am having trouble finding specific data for this. Any help would be appreciated.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 02:32 AM |
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2nd Post |
Ranch 13
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Lymans 49th reloading handbook has about 3 pages of data with 2 different 500 gr bullets, 535 gr bullet , and acouple of 480-500 gr bullets.
Myself I prefer 70 grs of Goex Cartridge , a .030 fiber wad in winchester cases.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15th, 2009 03:26 AM |
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miestro_jerry
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What are you shooting these bullets in? I have conisderable data for level guns to use a 500 grain bullet, such as a Marlin 1895 in 45-70.
Jerry
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16th, 2009 02:18 AM |
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hawkeye1
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This is for a friend of mine's H&R Handi Rifle. He already has a Lee bullet mold for the 500 grainer. Seems like it is going to kick like a mule, but that is what he has and wants to use.
thanks for the reminder on the Lyman manual. I will check that tonight.
good shooting
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16th, 2009 02:55 AM |
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Ranch 13
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Load that lee 500 3r bullet with 25 grs of 5744. It's a pretty fair bullet out to 4-500 yds but past that it can have some stability problems.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17th, 2009 03:50 AM |
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miestro_jerry
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I was going to say for some loads in your rifle:
IMR 3031 - Starting load is 37.5 grains
IMR 4198 - Starting load is 29 grains
IMR 4895 - Starting Load is 41.5 grains
Jerry
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15th, 2010 02:16 AM |
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Twofin2
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Jerry,
I just purchased the Marlin 1895CB. I'd love to find out what data you have on loading up to 500gr's in 45-70?
Thanks.
Dan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15th, 2010 03:33 AM |
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3006 user
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Twofin2 wrote: Jerry,
I just purchased the Marlin 1895CB. I'd love to find out what data you have on loading up to 500gr's in 45-70?
Thanks.
Dan
I'm not Jerry, but IMO, the 500gr bullet in a Marlin 1895 would have to be seated deeply into the case to allow magazine feed.. Besides that, I don't believe the 1895 is twisted fast enough for 500gr bullets.
Originally, Marlin, I believe, intended up to 405gr bullets to be used in the 1895.. If I'm incorrect, someone will chime in to set the record straight... 
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15th, 2010 04:41 PM |
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quigleysharps4570
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hawkeye1 wrote: This is for a friend of mine's H&R Handi Rifle.
That's not a good idea. I've a friend that had that same idea...he wanted a smokeless load with the 535 gr. Postell. I cut back on the powder some from one of my smokeless loads for the Sharps because of that light weight Handi Rifle. I wasn't there to see it but he said the first shot thumped him between the horns. Not wanting to wuss out he tried another...knocked him off the bucket he was sitting on.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15th, 2010 07:38 PM |
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Twofin2
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Molon,
Thanks for the input! I am reading the boards here trying to decypher and digest all the info I can on this rifle, it's Ballard rifling, the LOA clearance on the receiver, acceptable ammo and loads, etc.
So you comments are very valuable to me so that I can learn to ask more intelligent questions!
Dan
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15th, 2010 08:20 PM |
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Paul B
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For the Handi-rifle, I would stick to loads designed for the 1873 Trapdoor springfield. it's not like that rifle couldn't handle more but I'm betting the shooter won't be able to. I used to have a Ruger #3 in 45-70 and I loaded 500 gr. bullets up to 1850 FPS in that very strong gun. The gun did not have a problem with the load but my shoulder damn well did.  It was down right painful. I shoot some pretty big stuff including a Ruger #1 in .416 Rigby. That one hurts too but not like that lightweight #3.
For the fellow that wants to shoot that Lee bullet in an 1895 Marlin, check out the length of the cartridge when properly crimped into the bullet. (dummy round of course) If the OAL is more than IIRC, 2.55" it may not fit or feed. Ken Waters in his two part article on the 45-70 in Pet Loads said he could get away with 2.57" IIRC in his rifle. I could not in mine and the 500 gr. Lee (1970's) vintage) has a nose way too long to use in the Marlin. The early Ruger #1 and #3 had long throats and that Lee bullet shoots quite well in those. The #3 is long gone but the #1 lingers on.
The 45-70 is a fun gun and a useful hunting tool but it, with heavy bullets, hot loads and lightweight guns ain't no fun in the long run. You can also damage your shoulder. I think a good part of my shoulder problems may have been started when I was shooting those heavy 500 gr. bullets in that #3. OK, shooting elephants guns didn't help much. It was fun though.
Paul B.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17th, 2010 05:07 AM |
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Upstate Matt
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hmm, so riddle me this Batman.
If I use my Lyman 457122 at 322 gr. with a sane amount of SR-4759, shot in a handi-rifle; will it make me think twice before I decide to shoot it again?
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17th, 2010 04:56 PM |
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Paul B
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Upstate Matt wrote: hmm, so riddle me this Batman.
If I use my Lyman 457122 at 322 gr. with a sane amount of SR-4759, shot in a handi-rifle; will it make me think twice before I decide to shoot it again?
I think you'll find that 17.0 gr. of SR-4759 with the #457122 bullet to be a fairly comfortable load, even in the handi-rifle. That's one of my favorite loads for the 45-70 that I use in a new model marlin 1895 and a Ruger #1S. Accuracy has run right at 1.5' from the marlin wit a receiver sight and 1.25' from the ruger with a 3X scope.
I use a tuft of dacron lightly tamped against the powder to hold it in place next to the primer. You hsould try it with and without the dacron to which method your rifle prefers. I size the bullets to .459", but I'm thinking of rying sizing to .460" to se if that will improve accuracy as I usually pefer to size bullets .002" over groove diameter.
If you can find a copy of MODERN AMERICAN RIFLES by A.C. Gould, there is an interesting section on how Mr. Gould went about designing #457122. It's been long out of print. Copyright date is 1891. It was republished in 1946 by Samworth and the NRA has made a reprint as well. Still might be difficult finding one.
A. C. Gould was a well known target shooter of the period and commisioned the design of #457122 along with two other bullets. The bullets was actually designed by Mr. Barlow of what was then the Ideal company, later to become Lyman. After testing the three designs, he settled on the #457122 as being the best bullet for his purposes.
Paul B.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17th, 2010 06:09 PM |
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Upstate Matt
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I'll check the local libraries first for that book.
Thanks for that info. I just looked at a used HR for $259 at my local shop. Of course those Rugers are nice, but well, we'll see.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 14th, 2010 09:23 PM |
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msligar
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Het guys I am new to reloading and 45-70
I bought a H&R Buffalo Classic with a 32 in barrel. Took it to shoot and at 200yds could not hit the metal gong the size of a trash can lid. Seem to be falling short and I had the sights adjusted all the way.
Shooting a Remington factory load. 405 GR soft point R4570G.
I too would like a good load for 300 to 500 yards . I may need to add a Creedmore or a Hilux Wm. Maclom Scope
THANKS
Mark
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CTI1USNRET
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My 45-70 Handi Rifle load is 42.6 gr Reloder 7 pushing a 405 gr lead flat nose to 1775 fps. (Marlin 1895 lever action load level)
Using the factory sights, it's
3" high at 50 yds,
3" high at 100 yds,
2" high at 125 yds,
zero'd at 150 yds, and
3" low at 175 yds.
Thats as far as I'll shoot with the factory sights. Beyond 175 yds it's dropping like a rock.
Even using a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad this is an "unpleasant" load out of a 7 lb rifle.
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Paul B
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"Even using a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad this is an "unpleasant" load out of a 7 lb rifle."
You wouldn't be kidding me, would you?  I used to have a Ruger #3 that didn't weigh very much and with that lousy plastic buttplate a 500 gr. bullet at 1550 FPS sure got you attention and a quick trip to find some pain killers. The load wasn't quite so bad from a Ruger #1 though but still gets your attention. the #3 was sold off long ago but the #1 is still around. No way to seat that bullet deep enough to make it feed in the marlin though. I know cuz I tried. Probably just as well as my right shoulder ain't what it used to be. Too much arthritis for the really hard kickers to be comfortable any more.
Paul B.
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