| Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 08:53 PM |
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Novashooter
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I'm trying some new steel loads and I found one I really like.
Hull- Rem 3 1/2"
Primer- Fed 209 or Fed 209A
Powder- 45gr STEEL
Wad- BPI MM 3.5"
Shot- 1 1/4 oz. #2 steel
Other- 3/8" felt spacer
Vel- 1600 FPS
Pres- 13000 PSI
Well I got a new scale, and it says on the box that if you calibrate it to 0 grains with the pan, the scale will be calibrated. Well I did and measured up 45 grains of STEEL and put it in the hull. When I put the wad in it is just about 1/16" too long. Is my powder scale correct? When I crimped them the hull didn't buckle but the crimps weren't perfect. I think if I trimmed just a hair off the wads petals It will work fine. It was with Alliant's data, so is there any real concern?
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| Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 09:06 PM |
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Timberwolf
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What wad pressure are you using?
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| Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 09:24 PM |
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Novashooter
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I only use that with slugs. I just put the wad in and apply a little pressure. I would imagine about 20 lbs.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 04:00 AM |
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OldStuffer
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Just about every shotshell load I make, I set up the press to apply about 40 pounds minimum of pressure. 1/16" is not much, up the wad pressure some and see what happens. This usually settles any "almost, but not quite just right" load issues I have ever had.
This makes me have to adjust the press at times, especially when going between a light target load and a heavy payload field load, but, it puts a slight crush in the cushioning section, and insures no air space on the powder to give the powder burning troubles.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 11:57 AM |
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16gauge
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Steel is a bulky powder; you might want to try rapping the side of the case a bit to help settle the powder before placing the wad. Make sure that the steel pellets sit BELOW the level of the wad lip prior to crimping, otherwise they will score the barrel.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 02:42 PM |
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Timberwolf
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I use 30lbs of wad pressure for every typoe of shell I load, but the last few years I've only been loading slugs.
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Nice try = you suck spelled different.
Certified Armourer for Glock, SIG, S&W, Beretta and Remington 870.
Stercus Accidit = Sh*t happens in Latin.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 11:51 PM |
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Novashooter
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I tried 40 pounds but when I pulled the handle back up the wad came with. What I did was take a screwdriver and push as hard as posible, then put the felt wads in. It worked out great, thanks. I got it to crimp perfect, and shoot consistantly. My only issue is they don't patten well in any of my chokes.
Note to everyone: don't get your hopes up for Multi-Metals, they don't perform well on paper, and dont get up to higher velocities either, otherwise the pressures get sketchy. I have been experimenting with them for 2 years and cant get any decent porformance. Sure they kill but they are expensive and there are way better wads. I'm swithching to Sam 1.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 12:15 AM |
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16gauge
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I have been using multimetals for years now, with no issues......I shoot a stock 870 Express and standard modified (Remington) choke tube. I get good patterns with my load of 1 oz #3 steel (2 3/4") @ 1480-1500 fps. I feel that anything over 1500 fps is overkill (pardon the expression) anyway, esp. for decoying ducks.
I've had poor experience with the TUF wads from Precision reloading....for steel. When used with bismuth, I get good patterns from them. Every gun is an entity to itself.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 12:49 AM |
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Novashooter
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hmm, thats new. I along with anyone I have talked with has hated the multi-metals. I guess you just found a gun that likes them. My nova isn't particularly picky but some loads work great. the MM's just happen to provide average performance. Im not interested in average, I want the best. I have even had a to tight pattern. It was a 3" load with the MM #2 steel and it had a 25" pattern at 40 yards. I diddn't hit much but when I did they were dead. My goal is a 30" pattern at 30 yards and 40" and 40 yards. 25" at 40 yards is just too tight.
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tjones
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You aren't going to like this, but the Benellis barrels just don't throw the best patterns. That fact and the 3 1/2" just compounds your problems.
16 gauge has hit the nail on the head with the 1 oz loads of #3. I like them in the 1550 range. If you drop down to 7/8 oz you can get by with 1700 fps and still hold them together. The 3 1/2" IMHO is a sales gimmick-they don't pattern well. Save yourself some hassle and try the 1oz loads-I like the RSI 107 load-it's easy to load and kills very clean.
As for wad pressure, I always use 50# in my steel loads, they seem to be a lot more consistant.
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40twist
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I dunno about ne one else but if I am using plastic wads I use Zero seating pressure. I have always read that modern plastic wads do not nead any pressure on them except for there to be no air between the cup and powder......yeh you know its in my mec manual too... it says the indicator should not move when seating plastic wads... Then again I know how things go and maybe I will come across a certain hull / wad / powder combo where i may need to add some pressure who knows ???
ETA : I only load for skeet and clays with #8 lead shot.
Last edited on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 07:49 PM by 40twist
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16gauge
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40twist wrote: I dunno about ne one else but if I am using plastic wads I use Zero seating pressure. I have always read that modern plastic wads do not nead any pressure on them except for there to be no air between the cup and powder......yeh you know its in my mec manual too... it says the indicator should not move when seating plastic wads... Then again I know how things go and maybe I will come across a certain hull / wad / powder combo where i may need to add some pressure who knows ???
ETA : I only load for skeet and clays with #8 lead shot.
I don't use any wad pressure for seating wads, either.......but then again, I've learned so much on this shotshell forum in the short time it's been around, such as that multimetal wads are no good, you can't shoot waterfowl with less than a 1 1/8th oz load, reloading steel is only good for geese, blue dot is a good powder for steel loads ( esp. since Alliant finally came out and admitted it's temp sensitive, and I do my best waterfowling in cold weather conditions), ect, ect, ect.......
Been loading shotshells (lead shot, steel shot, bismuth shot, hevishot, slugs, and buckshot) for 35+ years and come to find out I've been doing it wrong all this time...............THank god for the internet!
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tjones
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16gauge wrote: 40twist wrote: I dunno about ne one else but if I am using plastic wads I use Zero seating pressure. I have always read that modern plastic wads do not nead any pressure on them except for there to be no air between the cup and powder......yeh you know its in my mec manual too... it says the indicator should not move when seating plastic wads... Then again I know how things go and maybe I will come across a certain hull / wad / powder combo where i may need to add some pressure who knows ???
ETA : I only load for skeet and clays with #8 lead shot.
I don't use any wad pressure for seating wads, either.......but then again, I've learned so much on this shotshell forum in the short time it's been around, such as that multimetal wads are no good, you can't shoot waterfowl with less than a 1 1/8th oz load, reloading steel is only good for geese, blue dot is a good powder for steel loads ( esp. since Alliant finally came out and admitted it's temp sensitive, and I do my best waterfowling in cold weather conditions), ect, ect, ect.......
Been loading shotshells (lead shot, steel shot, bismuth shot, hevishot, slugs, and buckshot) for 35+ years and come to find out I've been doing it wrong all this time...............THank god for the internet!
16 gauge, do I detect some sarcasm?! I never used to use wad pressure either, for trap loads. I HAD to use wad pressure to get some of the steel recipes to work. Now I just seat the wad at #50, just seems to work better. You are correct about everything else! If someone is just getting into this, I'd recommend;
1. SCALE
2. STEEL powder
3. 3 shot for ducks
4. 1 oz loads
5. 2 3/4" hulls
6. whatever steel rated wad trips your trigger
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Novashooter
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Yes blue dot is temperature sensitive (so they say) but I hunt in 0-10 degree weather and never had a problem.
Have gotten extremely good performance from my nova barrel, performance goes from gun to gun.
I have never killed ducks efficiantly with 1 oz or 7/8 oz steel loads. I always get cripples.
Give it a chance. With the right choke/ammo combo 3 1/2's will greatly out perform 3". Sure 3" gives plenty of shot and velocity to kill out to 40 yards, I want to be able to kill out to 50 yards. That is where I see most ducks, 50 yards.
2 3/4" is a great shell for lead and slugs, but I just dont see a use of them for duck, goose, or turkeys. Again I always get cripples.
3" is my favorite length, I kill everything with them.
3 1/2" is no gimmick, In my nova they definately out perform 3".
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16gauge
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Novashooter wrote: Yes blue dot is temperature sensitive (so they say) but I hunt in 0-10 degree weather and never had a problem.
Have gotten extremely good performance from my nova barrel, performance goes from gun to gun.
I have never killed ducks efficiantly with 1 oz or 7/8 oz steel loads. I always get cripples.
Give it a chance. With the right choke/ammo combo 3 1/2's will greatly out perform 3". Sure 3" gives plenty of shot and velocity to kill out to 40 yards, I want to be able to kill out to 50 yards. That is where I see most ducks, 50 yards.
2 3/4" is a great shell for lead and slugs, but I just dont see a use of them for duck, goose, or turkeys. Again I always get cripples.
3" is my favorite length, I kill everything with them.
3 1/2" is no gimmick, In my nova they definately out perform 3".
Well....guess your the expert then.
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Timberwolf
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40twist wrote: I dunno about ne one else but if I am using plastic wads I use Zero seating pressure. I have always read that modern plastic wads do not nead any pressure on them except for there to be no air between the cup and powder......yeh you know its in my mec manual too... it says the indicator should not move when seating plastic wads... Then again I know how things go and maybe I will come across a certain hull / wad / powder combo where i may need to add some pressure who knows ???
ETA : I only load for skeet and clays with #8 lead shot.
I use a Mec 700 Versamec and my manual says to use at least 20lbs of wad pressure. The Mec 600Jr manual says the above. The Lyman Shotshell Manual says to use wad pressure.
I have always used 30lbs.
Wad pressure is used to ensure reliable ignition
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tjones
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Novashooter wrote: Yes blue dot is temperature sensitive (so they say) but I hunt in 0-10 degree weather and never had a problem.
Have gotten extremely good performance from my nova barrel, performance goes from gun to gun.
I have never killed ducks efficiantly with 1 oz or 7/8 oz steel loads. I always get cripples.
Give it a chance. With the right choke/ammo combo 3 1/2's will greatly out perform 3". Sure 3" gives plenty of shot and velocity to kill out to 40 yards, I want to be able to kill out to 50 yards. That is where I see most ducks, 50 yards.
2 3/4" is a great shell for lead and slugs, but I just dont see a use of them for duck, goose, or turkeys. Again I always get cripples.
3" is my favorite length, I kill everything with them.
3 1/2" is no gimmick, In my nova they definately out perform 3".
OK, I am assuming you are what 19? Back to the original question. You obviously know more than most. I'm surprised that with so much knowledge you didn't think to do the obvious....push the wad in farther.
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40twist
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Timberwolf wrote: 40twist wrote: I dunno about ne one else but if I am using plastic wads I use Zero seating pressure. I have always read that modern plastic wads do not nead any pressure on them except for there to be no air between the cup and powder......yeh you know its in my mec manual too... it says the indicator should not move when seating plastic wads... Then again I know how things go and maybe I will come across a certain hull / wad / powder combo where i may need to add some pressure who knows ???
ETA : I only load for skeet and clays with #8 lead shot.
I use a Mec 700 Versamec and my manual says to use at least 20lbs of wad pressure. The Mec 600Jr manual says the above. The Lyman Shotshell Manual says to use wad pressure.
I have always used 30lbs.
Wad pressure is used to ensure reliable ignition
here is a copy and paste from my manual from MEC
"There is one important adjustment to be made at this station and
that is the wad height or wad pressure adjustment. Photo #22 shows
the wad pressure indicator , the adjusting screw and the wad height
indicator. With modern plastic wads it has become unnecessary to put
pressure on the wad. All that is required is that the wad is seated firmly
against the powder. It is not necessary for the indicator Photo #22 to
move when seating a wad."
I'm not doubting that there is a time or a certain flavor of hull or wad where more pressure may be needed
ETA mine is a 700 ...perhaps they sent me the wrong manual.....but can't see why there is a difference between machines....I'm gonna use zero no matter what machine I use , on the loads that I make at least
Last edited on Wed Nov 4th, 2009 07:29 PM by 40twist
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Novashooter
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No, Im mostly wrong. I'm just saying what I beleive to be true, that doesn't mean its ture.
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OldStuffer
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Well, MEC's "How To Reload" manual, does not address wad pressure.
My MEC 310's manual, says "See Charge Bar and Wad Pressure Guide for correct pressures". Somewhere, I'll bet I have that circa 1968 piece of paper, just no idea where.
My MEC Grabber's manual states "While tool has been pre-set at the factory for average pressure required, you may find it desireable to increase or decrease pressure".
My "Handbook of Shotshell Reloading" states, while showing how to reload using a MEC 600 Jr, "Our choice of wad pressure is 40 pounds when we reload. This insures that the wad is firmly seated on the powder and that all air has been purged.".
My Lyman manual, gives a very lenghty explanation that, due to my complete lack of typing skills, I will not copy 6 full paragraphs here. They state, the following, among so many things:
Wad pressure is up to you.
The only need for wad pressure at all is to insure that the wads are seated firmly on the powder and sometimes to compress the load so that it fits within the case.
A case with tapered walls (Win. AA, Fed. Gold Medal, Rem. Unibody) requires more wad pressure to seat the wads than does a straight sided case (new Win. 3-piece hull, Fed. High Power hunting hulls). (I added the parentheses)
A charge of #4 shot may require more wad pressure than an equal charge of #9 shot, because it takes up more space.
If, after loading the shot charge, you find that, due to the shot density, you have insufficient room for a good crimp, apply additional pressure (from 20 to 100 pounds) to the top of the wad column. Use just enough pressure to get the job done, no more, no less.
You seek to use 0# wad pressure, fine. I hope you never get eratic burns from it, and may all your loads fit like gloves.
I will put some pressure on the wads, it has served me well for decades.
My way at least does show a short powder charge, by a low wad pressure (or some flaw I missed in the basewad section).
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