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Loading Lee 1 oz slugs, Problem!
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 Posted: Sat Sep 11th, 2010 04:02 AM
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msta999
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I just got my lee slug mold, made 80 slugs and started loading them according to the load data that came with the mold.

Data used:

Federal Gold Medal 2 3/4 ", Fed 209A, WAA12, 48 gn Blue Dot, Lee 1 oz slug.

The first problem I noticed is, once I put the wad in, I can't get the slug in. So I only started the wad, leaving the sides up 1/4 inch to get the slug started. I did seven like this and only 3 looked ok. The others crushed the hull. So I started using 40 psi to push the wad/slug down and that is working ok, though they slid down slow. Seems to be too tight. I was going to use the fiber multi piece wads, because the instructions say it is more inportant to get the correct hight, than which wad is used. Not sure what is going wrong here, so I stopped and thought I'd ask the experts.

Hope you all have a good weekend and thanks again for all the good info/advise.

Oh, I have never used so much powder in a hull, seems like a lot for a 2 3/4 inch.

 

Last edited on Sat Sep 11th, 2010 04:04 AM by msta999



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 Posted: Sat Sep 11th, 2010 04:25 AM
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.45 COLT
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What's the maximum diameter of the slug?

That's good data, I've gone a bit higher on the powder. (Alliant data).

DC

Last edited on Sat Sep 11th, 2010 04:27 AM by .45 COLT



 Posted: Sat Sep 11th, 2010 04:38 AM
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msta999
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Looks like they run from .683 to .694, most in the .683 to .685 range. When I made these I dropped them in a bucket of cold water, about 4 inches deep.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 11th, 2010 04:51 AM
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msta999
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have one that is .701. I think I have some that the mold wasn't closed all the way. I have a bunch that are .67 and .69 (egg shapped). I must have got a piece of lead in the mold or something. The others are all .67 on all sides. Think that could be part of the problem?



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 Posted: Sat Sep 11th, 2010 04:59 AM
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OK, if you measure your WAA12s, the petals run from .022" at the top to .028" at the bottom of the cup. 0.028" X 2 + 0.685" = 0.741". That's more than the hull measures. I don't have any slugs cast right now, so I can't measure the length. Cut a spacer, or use a 20 Gauge Nitro card, to raise the slug as far as you can in the cup (and still be fully in the cup). The petals taper, you might fit that way. I remember my cast LEE slugs ran about 0.670" diameter.

Also, the alloy you are using has a bearing on the diameter. LEE says use pure lead, I use WW. Unfortunately, I disremember which alloy has the greater shrinkage, so can't tell you which way to go with it if you still won't fit.

DC



 Posted: Sat Sep 11th, 2010 01:33 PM
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i have to ask ..what alloy did u use ? pure lead is best and it also cast smaller boolits than any alloy , water quenched shouldnt be needed in truth and if it is a alloy ( as opposed to pure lead ) and it does make it harder with the low velocity of 12 gauges it will actually impart less energy if it doesnt expand
i'd definately check ur mold and clean the face of any lead specks or burrs along the alignment pins and edges as the burrs would hold the mold open a wee bit one shouldnt see daylight thru the closed mold or the fit isnt quite right and that would also help make it out of round ..



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 Posted: Sat Sep 11th, 2010 04:30 PM
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msta999
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I used wheel weights. I do have pure lead, but was just using up what was in the pot. I'll do some cleaning on the mold and recheck it.

.45 thanks for the tip on raising the slug. maybe between changing to pure lead and adding a spacer, they will load easier. Also, thanks for letting me know the powder amount is ok, just seemed like a lot.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 11th, 2010 06:08 PM
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Good luck on your loading....I loaded the 1 oz Lee slug in various hulls with various powders and got squat for accuracy, in both smooth and rifled barrels. I have heard that putting a cardboard wad spacer between the slug and the bottom of the shot cup would help with accuracy, but it didn't in my case. The slugs themselves varied quite a bit in weight, and wieghed more than 1 oz using pure lead. I used to start the wad into the hull, then insert the slug in the wad, and push & work the slug into the hull, then use the rammer tube to put about 40 lbs of pressure on the slug to firmly seat it on the powder. Then crimp as normal.

I would also recheck your hulls and make sure that you have Gold medal hulls, and not some other federal hulls....gold medals are quite a bit different and have a higher internal capacity than the other federal hulls with the paper basewads.....that is what first came to mind when I read about your crushed hulls.

I broke down and bought a Lyman sabot slug mold this spring....did quite a bit of testing this past summer and came up with a couple of very accurate loads.

Good luck!



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 Posted: Sat Sep 11th, 2010 08:06 PM
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Cut the "peddles" off and just use the Gas check and piston part. Drop the whole thing in the hull You don't need to protect the barrel from the lead. I'm guessing it is a smooth bore?:confused:



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 Posted: Sat Sep 11th, 2010 09:05 PM
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fryboy wrote: pure lead is best and it also cast smaller boolits than any alloy

That's what I couldn't remember - which cast smaller. :confused:

Cut the "peddles" off and just use the Gas check and piston part. Drop the whole thing in the hull You don't need to protect the barrel from the lead. I'm guessing it is a smooth bore?
You could try that, but I doubt it would give any kind of accuracy. The slug would rattle down the bore. Even a Full choke wouldn't straighten it out. But, I've never done it with a sub-bore slug, so I could be wrong.

DC

Last edited on Sat Sep 11th, 2010 09:08 PM by .45 COLT



 Posted: Sun Sep 12th, 2010 02:51 AM
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d45/70 wrote: Cut the "peddles" off and just use the Gas check and piston part. Drop the whole thing in the hull You don't need to protect the barrel from the lead. I'm guessing it is a smooth bore?:confused:

The 'petals' aren't there to protect the bore; the reason the slug is encased in the shot cup is because the shot cup acts like a 'sabot'.....it engages the rifling in a rifled barrel and helps to 'fill out' the bore in a smooth bore shotgun.



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 Posted: Sun Sep 12th, 2010 03:00 AM
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msta999
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did a little filing on my mold, used pure lead and they load better. Still fit kind of tight, but the hull is not getting kinked and they chamber ok. Thanks guys, can't wait to fire off a few of these.



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 Posted: Fri Oct 29th, 2010 10:42 AM
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msta999
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Went hunting last week, fired several of the lee slugs and one of those hollow point slugs. The hollow points did real good, went 8 inches into a 18 inch pin log. The lee slugs went in a good 12 inches, but they split in half. The kick from the hollow points wasn't too bad, about the same as a standard 2 3/4 load. The kick from the lee slugs was like a magnum load. I followed the load data, that came with the lee mold. I think they are a little hot. Although, the lee slugs I shot were the first load, made out of wheel wieghts. Could they bee too hard?



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 Posted: Fri Oct 29th, 2010 11:51 AM
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msta999 wrote: Went hunting last week, fired several of the lee slugs and one of those hollow point slugs. The hollow points did real good, went 8 inches into a 18 inch pin log. The lee slugs went in a good 12 inches, but they split in half. The kick from the hollow points wasn't too bad, about the same as a standard 2 3/4 load. The kick from the lee slugs was like a magnum load. I followed the load data, that came with the lee mold. I think they are a little hot. Although, the lee slugs I shot were the first load, made out of wheel wieghts. Could they bee too hard?
Yes, they could be too hard.....the mold was designed to be used with pure lead (although I know  a lot of folks who use WW alloy).  But the other thing is that shooting into 'pine logs' is not the same as shooting into flesh & bone, so it's not a fair test.  I would try somthing along the lines of wet newspapers, wet rags, ect.



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 Posted: Fri Oct 29th, 2010 12:04 PM
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yes they could but softer usually means less penetration but more expansion ( read that as energy transfer , knockdown power etc ) but the harder alloy also prolly helped them split in half , i dont recall to many harder than slug kicking factory loads ,usually lee errs on the side of safety with load data ( usually ) the kicker is how accurate were they for ya ? less or more kick doesnt matter if it doesnt go where aimed ( and have ya read the 12 gauge from hell thread ? [wow]
http://www.handloadersbench.com/view_topic.php?id=8730&forum_id=26 )



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 Posted: Fri Oct 29th, 2010 01:06 PM
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A possibility - you might have an overdose of zinc in your WW alloy. I cast with WW for the LEE slug and haven't seen fracturing.

DC



 Posted: Fri Oct 29th, 2010 11:19 PM
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msta999
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They weren't splitting when they hit the wood, they were splitting in mid air, making two different holes. I do have some made up of pure lead. I'll have to take some of them out and see how they do.

I really like those hollow point slugs. Wish I could get some more of them.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 30th, 2010 05:03 AM
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msta999 wrote: They weren't splitting when they hit the wood, they were splitting in mid air, making two different holes.

I've made bullets so hard that they broke up on impact, but for a shotgun slug, with no rotational force, to split like that, must be something serious wrong with the alloy. Possibly a flaw in the mold, but I would think any flaw that could cause something like that would be visibly apparent. Alloy is the only thing I can come up with, possibly you got a lot of the zinc WWs in it. That's my best guess.

DC

Thinking a little more, a very tight choke, along with an extremely hard alloy might be partially to blame.

DC

Last edited on Sat Oct 30th, 2010 05:18 AM by .45 COLT



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