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Good trap load for rusty reloader
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 Posted: Thu Sep 22nd, 2011 04:24 PM
   
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kevinj
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I have been a die hard reloader of anything with gunpowder for many years. All my shotshell loading has been for hunting and I have not kept up with the new powders. At 57 I just found out how much fun shooting trap with my sons was. Joined the league!

Now, I have a ton of AA 12, 2 3/4 once fired, WAA12 wads, (and some claybusters) . Shooting a Citori with IM/IM can someone recommend a good powder/shot load?



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 Posted: Thu Sep 22nd, 2011 08:59 PM
   
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TMan51
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I have killed many of those little devils with 18-19gr of Red Dot, and 1oz/#8's.

If you haven't bought the powder yet, there are lots of options, but RD has several handgun/cast bullet opportunities, and it's a fine powder for .38SPCL and 9mm/.45ACP target loads.  And it even works well for Cowboy Action level loads with the swaged stuff.

But I know the draw.  When my daughter wanted to bust some clays, I jumped back into a poofing clays with enthusiasm myself.  I found that 7/8's of 8's in my 12ga broke just as many birds as heavier charges of shot, and with the cost of SHOT these days, I can drop a bird or two.  Lets me know when my shooting is marginal, and works fine for an occassional round of skeet.



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 Posted: Thu Sep 22nd, 2011 09:18 PM
   
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OldStuffer
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18.5gr of Red Dot (alliant powder), 1 1/8 ounce 7 1/2 shot.

I've probably shot 40,000 of these over 20 years......

ALWAYS a trustable load, heat of summer, cold of winter, never a poofter.

Give them a 20-40 pounds of wad pressure (just enough to insure the wad is seated really).



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 Posted: Fri Sep 23rd, 2011 12:23 AM
   
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ghrit
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OldStuffer wrote: 18.5gr of Red Dot (alliant powder), 1 1/8 ounce 7 1/2 shot.

I've probably shot 40,000 of these over 20 years......

ALWAYS a trustable load, heat of summer, cold of winter, never a poofter.

Give them a 20-40 pounds of wad pressure (just enough to insure the wad is seated really).
Yes to all that, but I use Clays powder, and maybe only 30,000 attempts.



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 Posted: Fri Sep 23rd, 2011 01:10 AM
   
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12semi
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You guys are killing me.  I once broke two out of a whole box and thought, improvement at last!  That was with my 1100 which was stolen and replaced with an 1187 SP and quite honestly it swings awful.  Uh, could be me I guess....

How can I be so awful at clays and be about average on Geese?  I have hung around some pretty darn good gunners, paid attention, still can't break two in a row.  I've got an o/u that points and moves pretty good but believe it or not, I have NEVER killed a dove since I hung up my BB gun.  

Any suggestions? 



 Posted: Fri Sep 23rd, 2011 02:13 AM
   
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Rockydog
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Kevin, I shoot 1 oz loads of 8s from the 16 yard line with Claybuster AA12SL style wads and 1 1/8 oz loads with Claybuster WAA or WT style wads from handicap yardages. Both using 700X powder. Using Winchester AA hulls from 16 and Remington STS Hulls from handicap yardages. No reason for the difference in hulls except that it keeps them from getting mixed up and I don't have to readjust my MEC loader for either hull. I barely bump the wad. Just enough to wiggle the pressure spring. All loads with Winchester 209 primers. Powder levels are on the IMR website. RD



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 Posted: Fri Sep 23rd, 2011 02:17 AM
   
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ghrit
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12semi wrote: You guys are killing me.  I once broke two out of a whole box and thought, improvement at last!  That was with my 1100 which was stolen and replaced with an 1187 SP and quite honestly it swings awful.  Uh, could be me I guess....

How can I be so awful at clays and be about average on Geese?  I have hung around some pretty darn good gunners, paid attention, still can't break two in a row.  I've got an o/u that points and moves pretty good but believe it or not, I have NEVER killed a dove since I hung up my BB gun.  

Any suggestions? 
Borrow a bore sighter and have a peek over the beads at the spot on the wall for starters.  With an O/U, check both barrels.  General rule, and as always, YMMV, cover the clay with the muzzle with a field gun, and put the clay on the top of the bead with a trap gun.

With my Citori, I stack the clay on top of the snowman made from the mid rib and front bead, and keep swinging.

(I don't break them all, let me tell you --)



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 Posted: Fri Sep 23rd, 2011 03:27 AM
   
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.45 COLT
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12semi wrote: You guys are killing me.  I once broke two out of a whole box and thought, improvement at last!  That was with my 1100 which was stolen and replaced with an 1187 SP and quite honestly it swings awful.  Uh, could be me I guess....

How can I be so awful at clays and be about average on Geese?  I have hung around some pretty darn good gunners, paid attention, still can't break two in a row.  I've got an o/u that points and moves pretty good but believe it or not, I have NEVER killed a dove since I hung up my BB gun.  

Any suggestions? 


What game are you shooting? (I shot a good amount of Trap, no Skeet). What size shot are you shooting? How is that O/U choked? Have you patterned the gun with target loads? If you are using a choke suitable for the game and the pattern looks good, you might want to do a Point Of Impact pattern check.

Oh yeah, what Ghrit said too.

DC



 Posted: Fri Sep 23rd, 2011 03:54 PM
   
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kevinj
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I appreciate all the responses. Here are answers to some of the questions.

I have not patterned this Citori. I had my best round -21 at 16yds- (only shot 3 rounds) covering the clay with the top barrel. IM/IM chokes on this one. It's not that I am a novice shotgunner, just never really got into trap till now. My dove gun is an 1100 with 28" full comp choke. Why didn't I use that? I did not want to chase cases.

I have not bought powder yet. I am an avid pistol competitor and I have many pounds of pistol powders that will work. In todays economy I lean towards one that shoots well with 17gr vs 21gr. I can get and extra 80 rounds per pound! Some pistol powders leave a lot of unburned powder. I want a clean load.

I have about 100 pounds of 7 1/2 laying around and one bag of 8.



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 Posted: Fri Sep 23rd, 2011 07:02 PM
   
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12semi
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Kev-
My apologies for hijacking your thread. 

My Kids want to join a group shooting clay.  One of their classmates' Father is a super gunner and we both belong to the same range.  I think I will turn over training to him and i will go to some distant place and practice, practice, practice. 



 Posted: Sat Sep 24th, 2011 02:07 AM
   
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kevinj
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12semi - no worries. Didn't think you were hijacking. we all need advice on something. BTW I am in South Dakota. My son is a freshman shooting for UTM. We will be making many trips to TN.

Advice on doves... they are lot faster, more manueverable and smaller than most things you shoot. Lead, lead and lead some more.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 24th, 2011 11:00 AM
   
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OldStuffer
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ghrit wrote: OldStuffer wrote: 18.5gr of Red Dot (alliant powder), 1 1/8 ounce 7 1/2 shot.

I've probably shot 40,000 of these over 20 years......

ALWAYS a trustable load, heat of summer, cold of winter, never a poofter.

Give them a 20-40 pounds of wad pressure (just enough to insure the wad is seated really).
Yes to all that, but I use Clays powder, and maybe only 30,000 attempts.


I know folks who use Green Dot instead and swear up anad down on it. Probably a dozen powders about equal on that recipe.

Dad used Red Dot, so I do. This is the first cartrige loading I ever did, and did a bunch of them when dad turned the task of keeping us suplied with trap shells over to me in the late 1970's :thumbs:

I've been fortunate that, recently, I managed to break a 24 between that old shell and my even older A5 (love that cannon). The only reason I didn't break 25, is no fault of the ammunition tho. :sad::shameon::sad: Gotta aim right.

My skeet load (recent revelopment) is an ounce in a AA12SL in a Gold Medal hull, would have to look up the powder and charge, but, memory says that could very easilly be Red Dot.:confused:



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 Posted: Sat Sep 24th, 2011 11:04 AM
   
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OldStuffer
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kevinj wrote: 12semi - no worries. Didn't think you were hijacking. we all need advice on something. BTW I am in South Dakota. My son is a freshman shooting for UTM. We will be making many trips to TN.

Advice on doves... they are lot faster, more manueverable and smaller than most things you shoot. Lead, lead and lead some more.


Yes, BUT, I never could get myself to do this. Took me 5 of my "traploads" to drop 1 dove (on average, a box of shells would net me 5 birds).

Changed my load to a much faster 7/8 ounce pile of 9's, to reduce lead requirements. I am now by no means a 100% dove hitter, but it cut my "shell waste" in about half and doubled my harvest.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 24th, 2011 11:56 AM
   
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TMan51
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OldStuffer wrote: I know folks who use Green Dot instead and swear up anad down on it. Probably a dozen powders about equal on that recipe.


I've grabbed a lb of GD from time to time, and it's a very good choice for heavier/faster target loads and light game loads in a 12ga.  If you were really serious about your handicap game, it would quite likely show more even and consistant patterns with 1 1/8oz loads than Red Dot, and it's good for another 100-150fps with equal or even lower pressures.

Myself, I am not a serious clay killer, and most of my shooting is from a small trap with friends and family.  7/8oz of 8's and 9's over a dose of Red Dot is plenty of punch, and if I plan a trip to a real trap range, I can crank out a couple boxes of 1oz loads if i don't want to give my daughter an edge.  She's pretty brutal when she breaks too many more birds than I do.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 24th, 2011 01:20 PM
   
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Rockydog
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I've never loaded any red dot myself but I can always tell when somebody on the squad is shooting it. The odor is of the smoke is very distinctive. Smells almost as good as just fired new Federal Paper hulls. :cool: RD



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 Posted: Sat Sep 24th, 2011 08:01 PM
   
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swampshooter
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Clays is very clean burning, but so is 700x.If you shoot in cold weather Red Dot is very good, although not as clean as 700x it's a better all weather powder.

IF YOU'RE HAVING TROUBLE HITTING BIRDS THE FIRST THING TO DO IS TO PATTERN YOUR SHOTGUN. YOU'D BE SURPRISED AT HOW MANY DON'T SHOOT WHERE THEY LOOK OR DON"T PATTERN WELL. CHECK PATTERNS WITH ALL YOUR CHOKE TUBES ALSO. FREQUENTLY A CHOKE TUBE WON'T SHOOT TO POINT OF AIM, WE DON'T KNOW TILL WE PUT IT ON PAPER.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 24th, 2011 08:46 PM
   
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ghrit
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swampshooter wrote: Clays is very clean burning, but so is 700x.If you shoot in cold weather Red Dot is very good, although not as clean as 700x it's a better all weather powder.

IF YOU'RE HAVING TROUBLE HITTING BIRDS THE FIRST THING TO DO IS TO PATTERN YOUR SHOTGUN. YOU'D BE SURPRISED AT HOW MANY DON'T SHOOT WHERE THEY LOOK OR DON"T PATTERN WELL. CHECK PATTERNS WITH ALL YOUR CHOKE TUBES ALSO. FREQUENTLY A CHOKE TUBE WON'T SHOOT TO POINT OF AIM, WE DON'T KNOW TILL WE PUT IT ON PAPER.
Checking the choke tubes is well worth it.  Some are double or triple threaded, and might throw the shot to the left, right, up or down.  Knowing that will be really useful on the firing line (or field.)  My Citori throws a bit to the left from the IM tube.  (Gotta rotate that puppy one of these days.)



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 Posted: Sun Sep 25th, 2011 10:57 AM
   
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OldStuffer
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The Skeet Shooters I am learning from have found that TUBES tend to build up plastic fouling that choked barrels (fixed, the "old school" way) just do not do. I know of one who pactually removed a RING/SLEEVE of plastic from the tube, he said it looked like a tube inside the choke tube.
They believe it is heat buildup in the tubes, basically "running hotter" than teh plain barrels would under identical circumstances. The tubes not as effectively shunting away heat to the barrel steel. I dunno, I do know I've NEVER seen this on my old-school A5 and she has run some MAJOR quantities of shells at times in her life. I have not seen it YET in my tubed guns, BUTI need to start looking.



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 Posted: Sun Sep 25th, 2011 12:19 PM
   
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ghrit
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OS, I've seen the plastic build up in chokes. Hoppe's won't touch it, seems to want scraping. I've tried a couple plastic removers, but so far not much success. Mine streak, rather than ring. (Both the 870 and Citori do it.)

The upstream end of removable chokes are very slightly larger than the bore to make sure there's no lip on the inlet that something could hang up on with the obvious result. All the streaking I've seen starts just after that step.

Trying to visualize the dynamics sorta leads me to think that the wad starts to expand, however slightly, as it crosses the step, then hits the choke and rubs off plastic from there thru the muzzle. With a fixed choke that won't happen since there's no "gap" to jump. Dunno how accurate that attempt to explain it is, but it seems a workable theory.

Scrubbing the streaks is not my favorite part of gun cleaning.



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 Posted: Sun Sep 25th, 2011 07:52 PM
   
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Rockydog
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I choke a brass bore brush in my electric drill, spray the tube down with gun scrubber, and power scrub them. Takes about 2 minutes and done. RD



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