| Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 01:50 PM |
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msisut
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Hey Choppersdad,
You are looking at a custom 30 caliber for chambering your mauser action. Take a good look at the 30 Gibbs. Mine shoots a 180 grain bullet at 3250 feet per second. Very good accuracy and not a lot of recoil. Your 300 Mag. will certainly be jealous. This baby is fun to shoot! Brass is easy to get. Just a suggestion for your lonely action.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26th, 2009 08:39 PM |
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Offfhand
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Wow! That's really impressive! Really beats the .300 Win Mag by a bunch. What is you load and your rifle's barrel length?
Thanks
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 12:38 AM |
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msisut
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Offfhand,
I'll measure the barrel length tonight and report tomorrow. Also I'll give you my load data.
Last edited on Tue Oct 27th, 2009 12:39 AM by msisut
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 02:08 PM |
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msisut
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Offfhand,
My barrel length is 24" and I was shooting 180gr Hornady bullets with 63.5 grains of IMR4350.
I was shooting at a police range at about 5000 foot elevation. I was using large rifle primers by Winchester. They would flatten slightly. No other signs of excessive pressure. The rounds were chronographed right at 2350fps.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 04:13 PM |
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msisut
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Sorry, I transposed the 2 and 3. The previous post should read 3250 fps instead of 2350 fps.
Thanks, Glenn
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 06:05 PM |
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countryboy
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give a little info on the 30 gibbs if you would please
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 07:50 PM |
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Offfhand
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MSISUT, Thanks for getting back with load data. It's very impressive.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27th, 2009 08:14 PM |
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msisut
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Hi country boy,
The 30 Gibbs starts out with (new 30:06 brass) new because it must take a fair amount of expansion. This is both in diameter and in length. The cartridge is blown out a bit farther than the Ackley improved 30:06. My action is a 98 commercial Swedish built action which is certainly adequate for this cartridge.
The Gibbs line of cartridges are talked about in P.O. Ackleys volume 2 Handbook for Shooters. Mr. Gibbs gives a little data on his 30 Gibbs loads. His results as posted is a little less than mine, but close.
The fun thing with this cartridge is that it does not require much investment. Only rechambering is required. So an existing 30:06 can be rechamered. No bolt modification, no magazine modification. Hence 06 can be fired in this rifle and I think the 06 improved can also. Though I have not tried this.
After a cartidge has been fired in the Gibbs chamber the brass should be annealed so cracking does not start on the newly sized brass when you start reloading.
Now I've really made the issue confusing.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 01:08 AM |
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Rockydog
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msisut, 30.06 and 30.06Imp cannot be fired in the 30 Gibbs unless bullets are seated out to engage the lands and powder charges are reduced to offset the resulting increase in pressures. The result of this firing will be newly formed 30 Gibbs cases. I had a neighbor who had several of the Gibbs cartridges and actually used once fired military brass to make the bulk of his cases. I obtained virtually all of his brass in the sale of his estate. RD
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 01:22 PM |
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msisut
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Rockydog,
Your comments are interesting. You must enjoy shooting the Gibbs cartridges. I have used military brass over the years, but experienced premature cracking at the shoulder. Thus using new brass has served me better. I have taken many animals with this cartridge and have done extensive range shooting with it and so far (knock on wood) I have not had any cracking. I do anneal my brass after three or four reloadings.
The case lengths are:
30:06--2.494 inches
30:06 Imp--2.480 inches
30 Gibbs--2.500 inches
When you look at the thickness of one sheet of bonded type paper approx. .004 inch.
The debate about precision seating of the bullet becomes most interesting. Shapes and brands of bullets really vary. Even bullets out of the same box vary.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 03:01 PM |
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swampshooter
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3250 fps for a 180gr, bullet can not be achieved in an improved 30/06 case unless pressures are sky high. Either your chronograph gave an erroneous reading or your loads are unsafe. I'd suggest that you re-check those velocities on another chronograph.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 04:02 PM |
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msisut
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Swampshooter,
I think you misread my post. Please read again. I was giving my ballistics for my 30 Gibbs.
I respect your opinion. What velocities are you getting with your Gibbs? Your suggestion for another chronograph is noted.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 05:40 PM |
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countryboy
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msisut, pm me with some of your loads, i am a little intrigued about that round.
rocky dog, what calibers was your neighbor dealing with if i may ask
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 01:28 AM |
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Rockydog
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msisut, I'm afraid were not talking the same language here. I do not own a Gibbs only have his stock of brass in various stages of forming and some loaded rounds in 6.5, 7mm, and 30 Gibbs. My comments about seating the bullet into the lands are to address the headspace issues you'd face if you tried to fire an .06 or AI .06 round in a 30 Gibbs. With nothing to hold the cartridge against the bolt face the firing pin would move the cartridge forward creating the liklihood of dangerous case separations.
Countryboy, I think his main project was a 6.5 Gibbs but I have several Gibbs cartridges in the cartridge collection I got from his estate. Perhaps I can post some pics. RD
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 01:30 PM |
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msisut
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Hi Rockydog,
We really are talking the same language. I respect your comments as well as Swampshooters. I guess I don't have the energy to set this discussion up as a defending debate. I'm 70 years old. I built my first 30:06 when I was 13 years old working next to Parker Ackley. Perhaps my comments about the 30 Gibbs and the chronograph reading are in error as Swampshooter said. Having said this, I first commented to any one who was wanting to try some caliber that was exciting, fit nicely into a standard action, did not require setting an existing 30:06 barrel back, brass was readily available, and costs were within reason. It's a flat shooting cartridge, very good accuracy, reasonable recoil and just plain fun to shoot.
My collection of rifles is very extensive. Many of my chamberings are wild cat. All of which I built myself both gunsmithing and stock making. I always start out with low powder charges and work my way up. Some of my wild cats are a bit disappointing, but the Gibbs was delightful. Enough said, I hope this does not come off as bragging. I only wanted to point out that we really are talking the same language.
With Respect,
Glenn
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 03:09 AM |
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Rockydog
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Glenn, No disrespect intended on my part either. I actually have considered chambering a rifle for one of the Gibbs Ctgs myself for the very reasons you stated. The only reason I won't is because I can't use Standard 30-06 ammo in the Gibbs like I could in a 30-06 AI. My original post simply stemmed from the fact that I was afraid that, based on your comment,
Quote "Hence 06 can be fired in this rifle and I think the 06 improved can also." End Quote
someone would place a 30-06 cartridge or 30-06 AI in a Gibbs and attempt to fire it. As an administrator on the sight one of my roles is to watch threads for unsafe practices. Thus my concern. These two cartridges CANNOT be safely fired in a Gibbs Chambered weapon. Until some one can convince me otherwise I must respectfully stand by my post.
I don't consider your statements bragging at all. From the sounds of things you've got more experience by far than I and I look forward to more of your posts. I'm very envious of anyone who worked with people like Parker Ackley, Roy Weatherby, or Rocky Gibbs. Rockydog
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OldManMontgomery
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swampshooter wrote: 3250 fps for a 180gr, bullet can not be achieved in an improved 30/06 case unless pressures are sky high. Either your chronograph gave an erroneous reading or your loads are unsafe. I'd suggest that you re-check those velocities on another chronograph.
I'll speak in his defense.
I have an 'improved' .30-06 based on a 1917 Eddystone. It has more case volume than a standard '06, but less than a Gibbs.
I fired 200 grain Sierra boat tails from it at a chronographed 3140 f/s. The pressures were high. (Decapping was much too easy.) (Much, much too easy.) Based on various informational devices and calculations, pressure was in the low 80,000 psi range. I will not share the particulars for obvious reasons.
Happily, the 1917 is a monster for strength and the only loss was the cases. Just as a side note, the cases loaded, fired and extracted without note. Recoil was no worse than one would expect from a full charge, 200 grain round. Still, not to be repeated.
However, with a lighter bullet and a larger volume, the pressures would be less. The Gibbs' cartridges were not 'improved' in the same sense as the Ackley rounds. The Gibb's cartridges have a shortened neck due to a lengthened powder chamber and markedly greater volume. The headspace datum line is far enough forward a normal .30-06 round will not headspace properly. (And just for the record, Rocky Gibbs' wildcats were never known for a timid approach to pressure levels, either.)
I'm sure Msisut's loads are not starting level loads and I'm passing certain he doesn't get ten or fifteen uses per case; however, I think categorizing them as 'unsafe' is a bit premature.
On the other hand, they are not for casual shooting, either.
By all accounts, the .30 Gibbs is a real thumper.
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buffybr
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I had my .30-06 re-chambered to .30 Gibbs in the late 70's. The gunsmith that did the work did not have a Gibbs reamer so he used a Ackley Improved reamer and cut it to the Gibbs depth. I believe the Gibbs shoulder was 45* and the Ackley shoulder is 40*. The Gibbs shoulder is set ahead 0.10" therefore a AI or standard .30-06 will not headspace in a Gibbs chamber. My Gibbs cases only have 0.010" of body taper.
This was my favorite rifle for about 25 years. My load was 65.0 gr of H4831 behind a 180 gr Nosler Partition that chronographed 2990 fps. I shot 21 elk, 2 moose, an Alaskan caribou, and a mountain goat with it.
To make Gibbs cases, I would first anneal a .30-06 case, then I'd expand the neck with a .33 cal expander. Then I would size the case in a Gibbs sizer die which would start the shoulder at the Gibbs location on the expanded case neck. Then I could fire form the case that would be headspaced on the started shoulder.
Unfortunately, a few years ago something went wrong in the fire forming stage, and the chamber swelled and the extractor broke off the bolt. I had another gunsmith build a new extractor and re-chamber the barrel, but to get past the swelling, he had to cut an inch or more off the back of the barrel and also re-cut the threads.
Sadly, I retired this rifle to the back of my safe.
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msisut
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Hi buffybr,
Your comments are very interesting. I know its not available but it would be interesting to compare reamer dimensions.
I know how it is to favor a rifle over others in the rack because I also like the performance of my 30 Gibbs. I liked it so much that I built a new English Walnut stock to dress her up a little. With her new dress, she really likes to dance.
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