| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 01:02 AM |
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patriot7
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Just how many times can a cartridge on average be used?
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 01:09 AM |
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Paul Tummers
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Mostly only once, then you got a case left, if rimfire, useless.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 01:35 AM |
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MontanaShooter
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Depends on the casing and how "hot" of load used. Straight wall casings last a very long time. Bottleneck casings will not last as long generally speaking. How many times they can be loaded varies alot depending pressure and design. I assume that is what you are asking. No definate answer really. I usually get 3-4 (correct it is 4-5 they are once fired to start with) loads out of a 223 case before they start to split at the mouth, but i cant say as ive very often wore out a 45/70, or a 45 LC, or 44 Mag case (all straight wall). I honostly dont keep track of this and i use alot of brass so it takes me quite awhile to "fire" again the same case, when i find a bad one i toss it. By the way cases like 30 06, 30-30, 270 stuff like that have a very much longer life then my 223 cases (prob atleast double, at least with my loads). Last edited on Wed Oct 28th, 2009 02:02 AM by
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 01:44 AM |
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Busted
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Understandable, and common, qestion but case life depends on the alloy/hardness, size of the chamber it's fired in and the pressure (how much it expands actually), the actual inner dimensions of the sizer die (how much it's compressed each time it's loaded) and how well the user actually sets up his dies than anything else. And there isn't a soul living who can tell anyone else the effects of all that. It can run from as few as 4-5 reloads to as much as 5 or more times that many.
Sorry, but you will have to shoot it until it splits and then tell us how many times you can get.Last edited on Wed Oct 28th, 2009 01:45 AM by Busted
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 01:48 AM |
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fryboy
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lol@paul spot on lolz,glenn is right as well,a lite wadcutter 38 may out live both of us but some guns only get one shot (them prolly oughta be rebarrled lolz )what ya loadin'?n how hot ya pushin it ?
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 01:54 AM |
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Dragon88
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Neck sizing will help that bottleneck case last longer, as well as annealing if you really want to get crazy. With straight wall pistol brass be light with the expander die and load and the energizer bunny will still be using it long after you give up.
I had a batch of Remington 308 that I didn't treat nicely at all, FL sizing each time. Got 12x firings before I retired it, cases were still going strong.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 03:30 AM |
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patriot7
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I really appreciate all the input you guys. This is all new to me and I'm just trying to decide if I should get into this new hobby.
I guess I should have been more specific about what type of cartridge. I'm wondering about 30-06 or 300 Winchester right now. I'm assuming of the two, 30-06 will last longer, but how much longer?
From everything I have read I am led to believe that with the right bullet selection 30-06 will work just fine on anything in North America except maybe brown bear.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 03:46 AM |
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MontanaShooter
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Well patriot the shortest case life cartridge is still by far more economical to reload then to buy commercial factory loads. But.... How much do you shoot? If you shoot 40 rounds a year it prob isnt worth it. I lucked out and when i got started i found someone that tried loading and got bored with it and shooting and got a barely used loading set (Hornady 007) for 100 dollars that loaded maybe 40 rounds. If you shoot very little Lee makes a fairly cheap hand type loader i think, kinda comparable to a lyman 310 tool. However if you reloaded more youd prob shoot more. Esp 06 with all the FMJ 147 grain bullets and occasional these days 152 grain FMJs they make plinking very affordable versus shootin rocks and stuff with expensive hunting bullets. Soon youd find yourself loading for other things when you found out how much cheaper you could shoot and maybe even makin your own bullets to cut cost more. Its all in how much you want to shoot cause the equipment will pay for itself. One box or two a year however may take awhile. Hope you take up the hobby though cause it can be very addictive :) as for your question about 06, ive got almost a 1000 casings so i myself dont know lol.
Last edited on Wed Oct 28th, 2009 04:03 AM by
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 03:48 AM |
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Dragon88
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It's generally considered that magnum cases will not last as long, lots of stress on those from the stronger loads. I'll let others who actually load those calibers give you some tips though.
As far as savings, you will not save much money reloading, at least not in the first year or two. It will take a little money to get set up. But you can almost always get brass for free at the range, especially right now during hunting season. What you will do is shoot a lot more for your money, and gain a ton of knowledge about ammo, guns, and shooting. I've been going for about a year and a half now and my costs are starting to pay dividends. I shoot every weekend, and because I have a nice selection of components and equipment on hand, I shoot for dirt cheap compared to paying for factory. You will save a lot in the long run shooting those two calibers. You'll have ammo custom tuned to your rifles and you won't be as affected by the shortages or any future legislation. 
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 03:58 AM |
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fryboy
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depending upon shot placement it can more than handle the big bruin ( but insurance is nice lolz )i feel it only fair to warn u that reloading is addicting ( all disclaimers now apply lolz ) any case if pushed hotter and with more pressure will have a shorter life, i do believe the 06 is more versatile albiet perhaps with a few less yards reach and potency ,it does lend it's self to downloading more than a 300 mag , a 308 is just as accurate if not more but again a bit of power drop especially with the heavier bullets ,case life depends on alot of things , i read a forum where a guy had over 130 reloads with the same cases, he annealed after every shot and did a bunch of other stuff i'm sure but atthe time i read it he was still using them ( these were bottlenecked rounds btw )my brother and i have identical guns ( at least one pair lolz )he loads a lil hotter than i do ,my brass last longer ,we both neck size as much as possible ,we both have great loads worked up for our guns , we even use the same brand of dies he starts losing brass about 6-7 loads mine usually make it 13-15 and if i lost one it's because i really lost it and couldnt find it ( happens )the best advice there is straight from the lyman manual - when it comes time for the 5th trimming , discard the case,if u have a firearm u can try it with a lee loader for about $50-60,once u have the tool and the brass it's even less,if u enjoy shooting it adds even more fun to it but if ur the type that only shoots 3-4 rounds per year ...100 rounds would last forever
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 05:01 AM |
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Don Fischer
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I'd partical size the 300mag cases. That cartridge headspaces on the belt and belted cases are known to have sloppy chamber's. Move the headspace to the shoulder by partical sizing and they will last longer. Otherwise afer a few fireing's they will start to seperate at the head just in front of the rim.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 06:37 AM |
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woodsman777
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In 300 win mag I've got cases with 15+ loads (75-77grn rl 22)165gr bullets
rem, win ,fed. brass all in good shape but my pmc's are starting to neck split,
as a matter of practice after every 5 reloads on a batch of brass,
i will cut 2 random cases longs ways in half (fine tooth band saw)
and mic all the critical dimensions if they start getting thin the lot get's 86'd
"note all this brass from factory new has been shot only in one rifle with a good tight chamber"
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 08:00 AM |
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Paul Tummers
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This time a serious answer;
A bottle-neck case will not last as long as a straight one.
It seems to depend on a lot of factors; pressure of the load in use, dimensions of the rifle chamber,the way one resizes the cases,material composition of the cases, their annealing, and a good portion of luck.
sometimes there is a batch of cases, which is better than the others and can be reloaded several times more than average.
I do not go up to the limit with my reloading and get easy 10 times reloads in my .222Rem and my .308W. brass.
I use Remington cases in .222Rem. and Lapua cases in .308W., got a 200 Lapua cases waiting in .222, but will not use them until my Remington cases will be worn out-primer pockets- or neck split.
Kind Regards,
Paul T.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 04:02 PM |
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patriot7
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When you say "a 308 is just as accurate if not more" can you explain to me what you are talking about because I lost you on this one. Thanks.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 04:06 PM |
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patriot7
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fryboy wrote: depending upon shot placement it can more than handle the big bruin ( but insurance is nice lolz )i feel it only fair to warn u that reloading is addicting ( all disclaimers now apply lolz ) any case if pushed hotter and with more pressure will have a shorter life, i do believe the 06 is more versatile albiet perhaps with a few less yards reach and potency ,it does lend it's self to downloading more than a 300 mag , a 308 is just as accurate if not more but again a bit of power drop especially with the heavier bullets ,case life depends on alot of things , i read a forum where a guy had over 130 reloads with the same cases, he annealed after every shot and did a bunch of other stuff i'm sure but atthe time i read it he was still using them ( these were bottlenecked rounds btw )my brother and i have identical guns ( at least one pair lolz )he loads a lil hotter than i do ,my brass last longer ,we both neck size as much as possible ,we both have great loads worked up for our guns , we even use the same brand of dies he starts losing brass about 6-7 loads mine usually make it 13-15 and if i lost one it's because i really lost it and couldnt find it ( happens )the best advice there is straight from the lyman manual - when it comes time for the 5th trimming , discard the case,if u have a firearm u can try it with a lee loader for about $50-60,once u have the tool and the brass it's even less,if u enjoy shooting it adds even more fun to it but if ur the type that only shoots 3-4 rounds per year ...100 rounds would last forever
When you say "a 308 is just as accurate if not more" I'm loosing you. Can you please explain what your talking about. Thanks.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 04:34 PM |
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MontanaShooter
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bear in my patriot that neck sizing and partial sizing and all is great for many applications and i do agree that it works well, but in a semi auto like a garand or a AR-15 i would full length size. Otherwise you will most likely have feeding problems. Some times a small base die even is neccessary for a autoloader. They are a bit finickier about there diet. Last edited on Wed Oct 28th, 2009 04:35 PM by
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28th, 2009 07:02 PM |
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Paul B
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patriot7 wrote: fryboy wrote: depending upon shot placement it can more than handle the big bruin ( but insurance is nice lolz )i feel it only fair to warn u that reloading is addicting ( all disclaimers now apply lolz ) any case if pushed hotter and with more pressure will have a shorter life, i do believe the 06 is more versatile albiet perhaps with a few less yards reach and potency ,it does lend it's self to downloading more than a 300 mag , a 308 is just as accurate if not more but again a bit of power drop especially with the heavier bullets ,case life depends on alot of things , i read a forum where a guy had over 130 reloads with the same cases, he annealed after every shot and did a bunch of other stuff i'm sure but atthe time i read it he was still using them ( these were bottlenecked rounds btw )my brother and i have identical guns ( at least one pair lolz )he loads a lil hotter than i do ,my brass last longer ,we both neck size as much as possible ,we both have great loads worked up for our guns , we even use the same brand of dies he starts losing brass about 6-7 loads mine usually make it 13-15 and if i lost one it's because i really lost it and couldnt find it ( happens )the best advice there is straight from the lyman manual - when it comes time for the 5th trimming , discard the case,if u have a firearm u can try it with a lee loader for about $50-60,once u have the tool and the brass it's even less,if u enjoy shooting it adds even more fun to it but if ur the type that only shoots 3-4 rounds per year ...100 rounds would last forever
When you say "a 308 is just as accurate if not more" I'm loosing you. Can you please explain what your talking about. Thanks. Well I'll answer this first, then go back to the original question. It two rifles of equal quality, usually the .308 Win. will be the more accurate of the two. I have rifles in both cartridge and the .308 is more accurate than the 30-06, but only by a small margin although my heavy barreled .308 Savage 110S silhouette rifle will shoot rings around my .308 sporter. Whether it's the shorter powder column like what they now tout in the short magnums is the eason for better accuracy is something i don't know. My .300 Win. mag. will put 5 200 gr. Speer Hot-cores into .375" at 100 yards when I do my part so where'sthe answer? Regarding case life, probably the most important thing is not overworking the brass during resizing and crimping, if crimping is necesary for that particular cartridge. I have one box of .375 H&H brass that has been reloaded in excess of 20 times, and I'd have to look at my notes to give you an exact figure. I shoot a cast bullet load using a 270 gr. cast bullet over 49.0 gr. of H-4895. It's not a particularly hot load but requires a pretty stiff crimp. Brass is neck sized for four loadings, then full length resized, trimmed back to the "trim to lenth" and then the necks are annealed. Then the process starts all over again. My .300 Win. mag. on the other hand does not get neck sizing and is loaded as my good friend once said, "Balls to the wall." Yes, it is one hell of a hot load doing 2930 FPS with a 200 gr. bullet but brass life is excellent. No crimp on this one but I do anneal the necks every fifth loading after resizing and trimming. However, the trick is in how I set up my resizing die. Two things to remember, do not oversize or overwork your brass to keep work hardening to a minimum and two, anneal that brass at least after every fifth resizing or neck sizing for that matter. Do it even more frequently if your brass starts neck cracking even sooner that that fifth resize. Paul B.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 12:09 AM |
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fryboy
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thanx paul !
to add to that ...some cartridges are inherently accurate , the 308 is one of those , while it can be loaded badly even then it usually still retains a degree of accuracy ,it's one of the easiest rounds to get it close to "right" ( right being decent groups )it also does pretty decent with a very broad spectrum of powder and bullet configurations,while it isnt "noob proof" somehow with that round everything came together , it's not overbore, it has the desired neck length per caliber and while it can be overloaded it works great underloaded as well,no it may not have all the extra powder and speed of the much bigger magnums but it's a fairly efficient design ,it also cost less to reload than the big mags( big case = more powder )
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29th, 2009 12:19 AM |
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miestro_jerry
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My Magnum rounds I anneal every three loadings, my non magnum rounds about every 10 loadings. 38 Spl, 45 ACP, and a few other, never get annealed, many of the rounds that shoot in my Contenders, they get annealed every 5 to 8 loading.
I never had any cases go bad after x amount of shooting in mass, some are over 20 years old, but I keep in good shape.
So I tumble them, trim them, anneal them, mostly I inspect them. With 5.56 ammo in my AR, the primer pockets widen out too much after several reloads, I may glue the primer in with Sally Hanson's nail polish. My magnumk rounds, the necks will split ever so oftern.
The rest the life span is long with a few going by the way side now and then. I actually loose more when shooting at the range than I wear out.
Jerry
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30th, 2009 03:16 PM |
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StretchNM
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I anneal all centerfire brass (I load 3 - 30-06, 25-06, and 22-250) after 5 firings. Then, they're full-length sized and neck-sized inbetween.
Notes for my reloads include a brass firing count. For example, 0-4 means that brass has been fired 4 times. 1-4 means the brass has been fired 9 times, because after the fifth firing (0-5), the case is annealed and FL sized. Then it is numbered 1-0, meaning annealed once and not yet fired.
When a case neck splits, it's not that big of a deal and the brass can be thrown away of used as a snap-cap or chamber length tool. But when that irregular "ring" around the case starts about 1/4" or 3/8" up from the rim, it's time to chuck it before it seperates during firing.
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