| Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 03:37 AM |
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miestro_jerry
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Ceramic bullets were mentioned in another thread, so I look at a lot of websites and found this information:
http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev28-1/text/th.htm
Next the environmentalist will be complaining about tungsten poisoning or too much ceramic in the soil.
Maybe a ceramic capsule around some DU would be a viable lead free bullet. Why not have some company like Barnes Bullets develop a mil spec bullet out of copper? Except I think the G.I. Ball round is mandated by treaty or some such garbage.
Jerry
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 03:41 AM |
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2nd Post |
MontanaShooter
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I shot ceramic bullets the last time i did my qualifiying shooting in the Air Force. I remember how ticked off i was lol. What a joke. That was in about 2005 or so think maybe 06.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 06:02 AM |
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miestro_jerry
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The last time I had to do my weapons qualifer for the Army, Nixon was in the W.H.
Since then I have tried many of the solid copper bullets, most were not that good for long range until recent years, now I am a fan of Barnes and others.
But a bullet with a Tungsten core coated with a "lubricate" or lubricating surface that can be propelled at high velocity has been a round for many years. They were called KTWs or the "cop killer" bullets. I haven't heard about them in a few years. Allegedly, they will go thru Threat Level 2A body armor.
International convention says that we must fight with humane ammo, so the G.I. Ball round has survived for many years.
Maybe we should explore this more as time goes on. I have seen some of the "special ammo" that ends up with Special Forces and the military contractors, it isn't ball ammo by any means.
Jerry
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| Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 02:15 AM |
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OldStuffer
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Just for clarity, the Hague convention that specifies, only actually specifically forbids "Dum-Dum bullets".
Now, definition of THAT, is your best guess, it dates from the 1920's if I recall that properly.
Expanding ammo is not forbidden, govts just settled on FMJ, and it has stayed this way.
The majority of my USAF Security time that I was stateside, at least at my base, issue 9mm ammo was JHP. I was told it was due to gang-banger shootings, drive-by's.
FMJ was my annual qual-ammo.
The only real problem I see with ceramics is weight, or, lack thereof. Light bullets are not particularly good at long ranges, for they fail to hold velocity worth a darn.
And what starts off faster, bleeds velocity faster, at longer range, differences of velocity get less and less.
As long as some lubricating layer separates the ceramic from the barrel steel, ceramics being massively abrasive by nature.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 03:34 AM |
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miestro_jerry
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The definition of a Dum Dum Bullet is a bullet that is made to expand on impact.
The Hague convention is only one of the reasons that the U.S., Allies and the Com Bloc countries use "ball" ammo. Allegedly the military FMJ is formed around a lead core that contains a ball of lead. Remember I said allegedly. The actual reason is the ease of manufacturing military Ball ammo. During WW II the U.S. made some steel cased ammo, steel pennies and steel jacketed bullets when copper was in short supply. In some situation platinum was used when other metals could not be had, that is an expensive trade off, but it was war time.
When up against a uniformed military that represents a nation state, the U.S., NATO and few more organization return to the use of ball ammo as their standard combat rounds.
There are rules to warfare, most of them have been ignored since the early 1990s and the Gulf War.
So now some Spec Op units are getting highly frangible ammo with different characteristics, that is more unique than the stuff on the civilian market. I have been trying to get a box of 45 ACPs for 4 or 5 years, I have seen it and have fire it when I was visiting Ft Bragg.
Cermic bullets, that are just ceramic have no real useful purpose due to the extremely light weight of the bullets. To me, this was like when the Army want to have qualification done with the M16A1 that had a 22LR adapter in it. It is not the same as when the other guy is shooting back, plus the recoil was vastly different. Then accuracy will always be in question when you are not using your "issue" ammo.
Jerry
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| Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 04:46 AM |
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OldStuffer
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First time I ever shot and M-16, it was (from all appearances) a Vietnam era one actually marked "AR-15", and had the .22LR adapter kit in it (USAF basic training qualification).
What a massive pain in the rear-end. April 1988.
darn, that's a looong time back...............
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| Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 05:05 AM |
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miestro_jerry
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The USAF was the only service that had the AR15 marked M16s. I have only seen one like that.
These days, they let everyone wear tennis shoes for their daily runs. I can just see that, in combat when some service man says to the enemy; "can we take a break, so I can change my shoes?"
Jerry
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| Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 05:41 AM |
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OldStuffer
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The tennis shoes started back just before I got in, in '88. It supposedly helped with leg injuries (the A.F. honestly runs the kids too dam much,adn often causes the shin splints, kids being too uneducated to replace shoes when they should, seen it first hand, just not my legs.
In '96, when I was in Security Forces retraining from Crew Chief (airplane mech, changes in my guard unit forced me to change carreers or get out), the academy ran us all Tues/Thurs for a couple miles.
The post-basic training students (I was TDY so I was different) were run, by their squadron, for 45 minuites, Mon/Wed/Fri/Sat.
Just no time for leg rest/repair running 6 mornings a week.
Sometimes I'm not surprised the AF actually killed a trainee (my opinion on the acidental death) by water over-hydration back in the very early 90's. Stupid commands in the name of "keep them hydrated". At least I had nothing to do with it, so I sleep well.
I have other "issues" with the "softening" of BMT, but, not the right venue here. ;)
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| Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 06:05 AM |
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miestro_jerry
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I used to run to my office in the morning, only three miles, then did PT with my unit. If I got some slackers, they would be on the parade ground in quarter mile sprints against me. If they out ran me, they headed to the showers and then to other training or duty. If they didn't beat me, then we would do it all over again.
Now when the orthopedic guy looks at my X rays, he sees years of stress fracture that have healed up, plus the arthritis in my toes from hyper extension of my toes while running and rock climbing.
Now I have plantar fasciitis, which is probably just getting older in my case and working my farm almost every day.
But life has good to me so far.
I think that is from the movie/song FM, no static at all.
Jerry
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MontanaShooter
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I ran in basic and in tech school in the Air Force and my shins ached everyday, and nothing was more pathetic then the famous shin splint waivor that some of those idiots got to get out of during PT and later on most got kicked out anyways cause they were just plain lazy. Later in my term on a permanent party base we ran 100 yards from the starting point and walked the rest lol when we reached the half way point we walked thru base housing and ran across the finish line lol. It was kinda like that episode or the movie rather of MASH when they were pretending to do jumping jacks while setting on 55 gallon barrels lol. We didnt invent lazy though, i have many letters my great uncle wrote during WWII. One was from my uncle Richard where they were supposed to dig fox holes, he said in the letter he never dug any he just found one some one dug before and no one ever checked lol I was a airplane technician if i could run 3 miles was irrelevent to my job and it never affected my performance.
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miestro_jerry
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Running and Shooting were relevant to my job, while I was in the Army that had adopted Common Task, similar to the Marines Every Marine is a Basic Rifleman. But that didn't matter I was in the Infantry.
Jerry
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