| Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 06:15 AM |
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miestro_jerry
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Son number 2 sent this to me, he has a lot of enthusiasm for weapons. He sent me this link about converting an AR from the gas tube to the gas piston system.
http://gaspiston.com/product/ops-416-for-full-length-guns/
Jerry
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| Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 03:55 PM |
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OldStuffer
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The gas tube system of cycling is the #1 thing I most "dislike" about the AR and it's clones.
That could make one worth having.
Some are being made new with that style cycling mechanism, which I do like.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 04:24 PM |
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3006 user
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Not to be a "wet blanket" about this subject, but how did we get along with the original system used for decades??
Has the piston system been in use long enough to be proven as reliable as the original?
Granted, your M16/AR gas type should be cleaned. How much longer does that take as opposed to the piston system??
Just some thoughts... 
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| Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 10:08 PM |
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miestro_jerry
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With the M14, I field cleaned ina few moments, the M16A1, I spent maybe 3 times that cleaning it.
The direct gas system was to eliminate some of the recoil and climb. Now that the piston system has been properly developed for the AR15s, I may get that kit.
Didn't a couple of companies that are working the next generation of the Stoner military design go back to the gas piston and had really figured out how to do it right?
Jerry
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| Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 10:47 PM |
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Jerry, thanks for the info..
I guess this means that Eugene Stoner had it wrong to begin with, and should have looked at an AK.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 1st, 2009 11:57 PM |
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miestro_jerry
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3006 User,
Your welcome.
Jerry
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| Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 04:30 AM |
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OldStuffer
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3006 user wrote: Not to be a "wet blanket" about this subject, but how did we get along with the original system used for decades??
Has the piston system been in use long enough to be proven as reliable as the original?
Granted, your M16/AR gas type should be cleaned. How much longer does that take as opposed to the piston system??
Just some thoughts...
The "short throw piston" gas system has been arround since the 19-teens, look back to the original US Govt. BAR in 30-06.
The gas system (along with the feed system) of the Vietnam to now M-60 machine gun traces it's roots back to the 1940's to the MG42 and 44 machine guns.
You almost never (ok, you really seldom) clean the gas piston section of a regularly operated gas-auto system. We rarely ever cleaned the M-60 piston area out, only if, when dismantled, if you tipped the barrel back & forth, and could not hear the piston clunk back and forth.
Oddly enough, this was usually caused by gunking up due to bore cleaner (or CLP) getting down the gas ports (from being cleaned right-side-up, with the ports on the bottom). You cleaned them upside down, so stuff didn't run in the holes.
I have only cleaned out the piston portion of my Civ. BAR hunting rifle once, 25 years ago, and it didn't need it. It is self-cleaning at 50,000psi unless you contaminate it with oil/solvents
The only firing residues that get into the breech locking lug areas are what little bit wafts out the cartridge case and the barrel while the action is swapping an empty for a full one. Very little crud.
The standard AR-system directly barfs propellant gas & carbon soot into the, usually oiled, locking recesses of the bolt and breech, which jams them up fairly soon, especially no stronger than the recoil spring is against the bolt (thus the invention of the Foreward Assist button).
IMO Mr Stoner DID have it wrong, but, that's just my opinion.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 04:50 AM |
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miestro_jerry
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I would have favored a blow back operated rifle in a light caliber like the 5.56 round. But those Fly Boys had to have their futuristic weapons and they went and bought a few AR15s from Stoner and the rest is history.
The AR style weapon system was favored after a time, because almost any one can be trained to shoot it and fairly well, but it has been in service for several decades and most of the original bugs have been worked out. I think HK has a rifle (the M416 ?) that is a piston actuated gas operating system that is in limited use with U.S. Forces.
The United States needed a rifle to compete with the AK47. The M1 Carbine could not be modified to handle any more modern much more powerful ammo properly, so somebody had to fll the gap, so we got a Stoner design, even after the DOA and DOD turned down the design at least once.
Jerry
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| Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 05:00 AM |
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Stuffer, thanks for the input - very informative!
Maybe I should have worded my statement about the piston system being reliable somewhat differently. It was meant half in jest.
My AR seems to like Dri-Slide - stays pretty clean..
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