| Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 11:21 AM |
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BBTC48
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I am working on loads for my 6.5 Swede. It is a 22" Sako fluted S/S barrel. I was hoping to be able to shoot (hunt with) a 140 gr bullet but I have not found any acceptable accuracy with this weight bullet. The 130's are just OK while it likes ANY 120gr bullet that I feed it. They claim a 1-8" twist and this is supposed to be the twist that will work with 140's, right? I have tried 3 kind of primers, Lapua brass, 139 Scenars, 140 AMAX's, imr4831,imr4350,a4350, and N160. I think I even tried Varget. Every length from touching to .030" jump in .050" increments. I've tried 'em reduced and hot-rodded. Once fowled, it will shoot 120's in one little ragged hole. The smallest 140 group has been 2". Anyone I know uses 8" twist to build any kind of 6.5 so why won't this thing shoot the 140's. ?? Your Thoughts ??
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| Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 05:49 PM |
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Rapier
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BBT,
Suggest you run a jag and tight patch in your barrel with a rod that allows the patch to turn. Push the patch down to near the throat, with a good and tight fit, then mark the rod and muzzle with a magic marker. Pull the rod/patch out till the mark on the rod makes one full turn, measure the length between the muzzle and mark. If it is 1-8 the measurment should be 8 inches. I suspect it is going to be more than 8 inches if you can not get anything heavier than a 120 to shoot.
Sako has a long history of going their own way with twist rates, including a real disaster, their 244. 
Best,
Ed
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| Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 08:24 PM |
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BBTC48
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Oh no Rapier, I wouldn't even buy it without checking that first, and it's exactly 8" just as advertised. Went and re-checked it now just to make sure I'm not going coocoo. Thanks for the thought.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 01:04 AM |
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fryboy
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most of my 6.5's no matter the twist (or caliber)seem to work best with a long lead on the heavier bullets , ur chamber/throat/lead may be cut for the shorter ones( lighter bullets) i too find it odd that it doesnt like the 140's ,one of my fav powders in the 6.5x55 is h414 and i cant help but wonder how the norma factory heavy stuff would do in ur's ...
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| Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 01:33 AM |
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BBTC48
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Maybe some additional background is pertinant here and now. This is (was) a new 22 1/2" Sako Finnlite fluted S/S barrel that I had installed on my S/S Winchester long action. The threads on a Sako barrel are about 1/2" too long so they must be shortened to install on the Win action and of course the chamber reamed deeper to make up for the 1/2" cut-off. I requested the smith to make sure I had a deep throat and I am able to seat my bullets WAY out where I like'em. My bullets are only in about 2/3'rds into the neck and I have plenty of room for lots of powder since a lot of 6.5 Swede data is on the puny side due to WWII guns in the system. This was a M70 featherweight in .270Win and it always shot like crap so I made a project gun out of it, even with the crappy composite stock that Winchester put out (Bell& Carlson??) This gun likes 50gr of N160 in Lapua brass with 210m primers and ANY 120gr bullet jumped .005-.010" I just can't get a 140 to shoot. With a 8" twist, I shouldn't be begging for answers !!
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| Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 12:16 PM |
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Rapier
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BBT,
You answered my next question already, regards the barrel. If I read the answers correctly, the barrel is more like a used barrel than a new barrel. It is odd for any barrel to shoot one bullet into one hole and another into 2 inches, when both bullet weights should shoot well. The Swedes (well known for their accuracy) have a 1-7.5 twist and will shoot everything from 85s to 160s. Your 1-8 barrel should shoot 85s to 160s also. There has to be a reason for the lack of accuracy with the 140s.
The problem is the variables: Is the load itself accurate? Is the bore fouled? Is there a problem with the barrel? Is there a problem with the work? The bore could be fouled if you shot the 120gr groups first then tried the 140s after or as the bore fouled. If you shot the 140s then the 120s go back to the load.
My test load for a 6.5x55 gun is 51-52 gr of H-4831 under a 140 Hornady flat base spire point Interloc bullet, set .003 off. I know that if a 6.5x55 will not shoot that load into .5 to .7 inches or so, I need to tear the gun down and start over again. I have never had to rebuild a gun, yet. I suggest that you try the load and see what happens. If this load does not shoot then I would take the gun back to the smith that did the work and get him to eyeball the situation in his shop.
Best,
Ed
Last edited on Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 12:17 PM by Rapier
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| Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 08:28 PM |
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BBTC48
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Afriend of mine here at home is a lifelong Sako dealer. His pet is the 6.5-284 and builds many custom hunting rifles and does so with custom Walther barrels on Sako actions. He takes many new Sakos apart to get the actions for these customs since Sako will not sell seperate actions. He hands his creations over to the buyer already broken in and guarenteed minimum 1/2" most often better. This barrel was a new, unfired take off that I had them install on my Win action. It was bedded and returned to me for break-in. I started with moderate loads and light (85gr) bullets and went thru the whole routine of break-in. The very first group out of the gun was.540 followed by a .470. It has shot quite well with most anything I fed it until I got to the heavier bullets. After 120's I tried some 130 Berger VLD's. The best was 1 1/2" Then I tried some 139Lapuas and they scattered as well. I just tried some 140 Amax's and no different, 1 1/2- 2" I will say that the first shot out of cold clean barrel is ALWAYS 1" off then will put the next four in one ragged 3/8- 1/2" hole. So, yes it does like a fowling shot and 120's I am using Lapua brass and 210M's or CCI200's and now VV N160 but have used IMR4831 and IMR4350 and A4350. It's favorite so far is 50gr N160, 210M and 120gr Sierra flatbase or 120 Nosler B.T. This is not a benchrest machine, just a lightweight hunting rifle with about a 2 1/2 lb trigger. Visibility is good with a 6-24 HawkeBallistic Nite-Eye. I have been reloading for most of my life and am very meticulous about my brass prep, measurements, etc.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 11:13 PM |
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Rapier
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BBT,
Have you bedded the action and floated the barrel? If you bedded the action, did you bed it 100% and not just the recoil lug and tang?
Best,
Ed
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| Posted: Wed Nov 4th, 2009 03:49 AM |
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BBTC48
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The contact points front,middle and rear tang, front lug and 1" of barrel at breach end. Barrel VERY free floated. I have actually shot my best groups off a bipod and usually try to simulate hunting conditions. My range only offers 200yd max and here in Pa. that is about as far as you would ever shoot.
The fact that it shoots some stuff well tells me it's not the weapon. I will start over with the 140's by picking one powder, sticking with it, start by ladder testing for the right charge, then move to OAL trials and primers trials. Apparently I'm just ticked off that it didn't shoot well with the first things I dumped into it. One thing for sure, it is a sweet looking little rifle and I'm in love with the caliber so I'll get it right come hell or high water. Thanks Rapier
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Rapier
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Ok, Without eyeballing the situation it is very difficult to diagnose the problem. If you do not get the answer take the gun into your buddy and have him check it over carefully.
If you think it is the trigger nutt then try an old Army rifle / pistol team trick. Load two rounds with bullets, no primer or powder. Then mix them with three fully loaded rounds, without looking at the primers, load the 5 rounds into the gun then fire a group. If it is the trigger nutt that has come loose, it will show up very quickly.
Best,
Ed
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"who can afford so to cover his country with troops for its defense as that 10,000 men descending from the clouds might not in many places do an infinite deal of mischief before a force could be brought together to repel them?" Franklin
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BBTC48
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Love the old Army team, trigger nutt trick. Will use it ! This trigger nut is working with 61 yr old eyes and old eyes only get.....older, so the shooting skills are well practiced but may be deteriorating as well. One thing that is a thing of beauty is the combination of the long throated chambering and the fact that this Win action started life as a .270Win...long action. So even with OAL's as long as 3.200", there is still tons of room for the rounds to function up through the magazine well. I'm careful to have clean, brushed necks (internal) and nicely sized necks for consistant tension. and I keep the cases properly trimmed, when needed.
I may retreat from the 140's to the 130's which I really didn't give a fair shake and have a box of Berger VLD's left to play with.
Thanks for all the thought, Ed
Bill
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