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.257 roberts +P?
 Moderated by: Slingshot, Rockydog, klallen, DesertMarine, -6
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 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 03:05 AM
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Sasquatch
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Some of my .257 roberts brass is stamped +P. I'm familiar with the +P thing in commercial ammo, but I've not been able to find anything about it in any of my reloading manuals. The +P brass is definitely a bit thicker than the regular stuff. Is there separate load data for +P loads, or should I just treat it like military brass and drop the starting load by a grain or two?

I'm really not too concerned about getting every last bit of performance out of the .257 (after all, I have bigger rifles) but if there's a significant difference between regular and +P I might try out some hotter loads for mule deer.

And in general, I'd be real interested to know if there's any other difference between regular and +P brass besides the case thickness. Thanks.



 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 05:40 AM
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Paul B
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Standard pressure for the .257 is around 45K C.U.P.while Plus P ammo is rated at 50K C.U.P. or something in those ranges. Problem with the .257 Bob is there are a lot of 93,95 and 96 Mausers that are considered to be weaker actions The 93 and 95 rifles were originally chambered to the 7x57 mauser round which is loaded to 45K C.U.P. because of those rifles. The .257 Robt. is just a necked down 7x57 case. many of those eaker mausers and the 96 as well have been rebarreled to .257 Robt. thus the lower pressure ammo. Thing is, there are modern rifle these days also chambered to the Roberts. I have a Ruger #1B and a Winchester M70 Featherweight in the .257 and Ruger has made the M77 in ,257 as well. These modern rifles can handle that Plus P ammo without a strain. My thoughts are you can go a bit higher yet, if you're inclined to experiment a bit.

I'm thinking you can start a bit low and work up to plus P levels in brass so marked Only your rifle can tell you for sure kust how far you can go. I've worked up to the max load with IMR-4350 and the 100 gr. barnes TSX bullet in ,u M70 and I do think I could go a bit higher. Maybe one of these dayys I give it a try. BTW, that TSX bullet is quiteaccurate in the M70. Now if I can only draw a tag so I can shoot something with that gun.

Paul B.



 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 11:23 AM
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TMan51
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Sasquatch wrote: I'm really not too concerned about getting every last bit of performance out of the .257 (after all, I have bigger rifles) but if there's a significant difference between regular and +P I might try out some hotter loads for mule deer.


Depending on the load, the potential of +P is actually quite a bit more than the watered down Roberts ammo, and the differences in factory loads can be as much as 400fps, for most bullet weights.  I Krony'd some stuff for a friend with a beautiful M700 Mtn Rifle, and the standard rated stuff was not even close to the catalog speeds, which were well below the +P.

If you have one of the newer rifles from Ruger or Remington, they will obviously handle all of the pressure of any other modern round, and would be a fair improvement at the far end of the Roberts range.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 02:01 PM
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Sasquatch
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Thanks for the replies. My .257 is a custom 98 mauser, so I reckon it will be ok with the higher pressure. I've got a bunch of 117 gr. game kings that might be good to experiment with. I mostly want to use it with some 75 gr. sierra varminters for coyotes, since I think even the 120 gr. slugs are just a bit light for elk. But I'd love to load hunting loads anyway just to have around. Plus, it's just a joy to shoot.



 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 02:28 PM
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TMan51
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Sasquatch wrote: I think even the 120 gr. slugs are just a bit light for elk.

Some will argue that point, but having shot a few I have to agree with your position.

If I had only a .257 Roberts to cover everything, I think I'd find the extra cash for some Partitions or Grandslam's, and go chase elk. 

On deer size critters even the 100gr SP would work fine, or at least the 100gr .243's do, and there isn't much difference.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 02:39 PM
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BEAR
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the P+ headstamp only signifies the extra powder/pressure that the factory loaded in that brass case. It is the same brass case as a 257 robt. headstamped case of the same brand.

So you can load P+ loads in your regular 257 robt headstamped cases or in the "257 rob. P+" headstamped cases.

The brass case is not a weakness in the roberts, the old guns are the weak link.  Same with the 7x57 mauser.

Last edited on Sat Sep 25th, 2010 02:41 PM by BEAR



 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 04:13 PM
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Paul B
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Sasquatch wrote: Thanks for the replies. My .257 is a custom 98 mauser, so I reckon it will be ok with the higher pressure. I've got a bunch of 117 gr. game kings that might be good to experiment with. I mostly want to use it with some 75 gr. sierra varminters for coyotes, since I think even the 120 gr. slugs are just a bit light for elk. But I'd love to load hunting loads anyway just to have around. Plus, it's just a joy to shoot.

I agree that your rifle should be OK with modern loads. I ought to measure the twist rate in my M70 because it won't shoot 120 gr. bullets worth spit. :confused: That's OK I guess as they shoot just fine in my 25-06. Those Sierras should be accurate though if you have at least a 1 in10" twist. The only way to find out is load some and shoot them. I've always gotten good accuracy from Sierra bullets. I do think that if you had to use your .257 for elk, I believe I'd look at either the 120 gr. Nosler partition or the 115 gr. Barnes TSX. The only question would be, will the barrel's twist rate stabilize those bullets? Still, if you put one in the "sticking place" you'd have one very dead elk and meat in the freezer, :cool: I've got to try those 120's in the Ruger #1 one of these days and see if they'll shoot well in that rifle. I like the M70 because it's almost a pound and a half lighter and I'm getting mighty lazy in my old age. :rolleyes:

Paul B.



 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 08:49 PM
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Charley
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I've shot a fair number of whitetails with the standard pressure .257, in a1895 Mauser action. So far, none of the bullets have bounced off.



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 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 10:01 PM
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Paul B
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Charley wrote: I've shot a fair number of whitetails with the standard pressure .257, in a1895 Mauser action. So far, none of the bullets have bounced off.

How true. :wink: Seriouls, I believe it was Kimber that took a bunch of 93 and 95 Mausers that Spain had converted to 7.62 NATO, restocked them with IIRC Butler Creek synthetic and put sights on the guns. They then sold them as .308 Win. rifles. Wait a minute. What's wrong with that picture? THose guns are too weak to handle the .308, right? I guess not. :confused:

A little history. Spain's battle rifle was the CETME. The cartridge was supposed to be the 7.62 NATO but the gun couldn't handle the pressure. So, they down loaded the round in powder but the cartridge case is exactly the same as the .308 Win. or 7.62 NATO. THose old Mausers could handle the 7.62 CETME round. So what's the deal mking them into .308 Sporters? Kimber had the H.P. White laboratory test those actions for safety using the .308 round and they were proved to be safe. I gues they were strong enough after all. Still, while I have no problem heating up 7x57 ammo for my modern rifles, I'll still stick to recommended loads for a 93 or 95 Mauser. I value my facial feature such as they are. They're ugly enough with out me altering them with gun parts as decorations. :shameon::shameon:

Paul B.



 Posted: Sat Sep 25th, 2010 10:46 PM
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hwy40
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My local gunsmith claims that if RL15 had been around in the 1950's, there would have been no need for the 25-06. He uses a heavy charge of RL15 under a 75gr V-Max for everything smaller than deer. I don't think he uses any other cartridge more than the 257 Bob.



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 Posted: Sun Sep 26th, 2010 01:03 AM
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runfiverun
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when i look in my manuals the loads are the same.
the +p brass has a higher pressure and velocity.
must have something to do with capacity.
as when i use the +p brass in my mausers i have to use one less grain for the same velocity v.s's the regular mauser brass.



 Posted: Thu Oct 14th, 2010 09:55 PM
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wildcat
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the +p on the roberts is just thicker walls,i have an article on it,it was made for older rifles because it cant handle the pressures in modern guns,it stops u from loading it to hot for old guns but hurts a little when loading for newer gun,im shooting a ruger#1 in 257 roberts,,i dont think u can get any thats not +p,i havent found any anyway



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