| Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 07:27 PM |
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LilMag
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Gentlemen, is it possible to purchase a Sharps or Rolling Block reproduction rifle, that will in fact be able to shoot the modern 45/70 cartridges at todays PSI (40,000) and velocities (1600fps) using smokeless powder out of a Marlin model 1895 using a 400 grain bullet???
I had looked up in my book "Cartridges Of The World" trying to compare the Sharps 45/110 or 45/120 velocity's and bullet weights. However, I was a little confused as to the way things were pictured and set in print.
Thank You for your interests!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2009 01:56 AM |
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wheezengeezer
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with smokeless powder the longer cases have only a disadvantage over the 45/70.they are only neded with black powder.
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I was raised in the 50's on gunpowder and jackrabbits.salt and pepper wooda made'em taste better
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| Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2009 05:04 AM |
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Ranch 13
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Yes it's possible but the better question is WHY?
In those single shot rifles you don't have to limit yourself to the length restrictions required by Marlins version of the 73 winchester.
You can load the 500+ gr bullets to 12-1300 fps and shoot thru most any critter that walks the face of this planet. And you don't need to faddle around with smokeless powder running at high pressure and beatin the hell out of you , your gun and your brass to get the job done.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 7th, 2009 02:48 AM |
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LilMag
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hello forum members, my counsin Hi Ball wants to know if you can shoot a 450 grain bullet out of one of those reproduction Sharps rifles at a velocity of 1,600 fps.
how fast can one shoot a 450 grain bullet out of a 45/120 using black powder?
where can one find the ballistics for loading one of the above rifles?
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| Posted: Sat May 30th, 2009 05:24 PM |
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BPCR Bill
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Seconds on Ranch 13's post. A good friend took a Bull Moose in Montana about 14 years ago with his original Sharps 45-2 7/8". At 200 yards, three 500 grain cast bullets went clean through him, all shots in the vitals. The beast stumbled perhaps 50 yards before tipping over dead. This with Black Powder.
That same year, my nieces husband took a Bull Moose in the same state. His shots were at 75 yards, fired from a 338 Win Mag. Pretty much the same drama unfolded, but Larry managed to recover all three spent bullets from the offside of the critter. Just what did all that velocity "advantage" really do? There is a point where velocity is pretty much useless and can't even begin to make up for a well placed shot. Do not even begin to underestimate the capabilities of Black Powder. After all, it pretty much wiped out the North American Bison population in the 19th century.
I have yet to chronograph any of my BP loads, but I imagine a 450 grain bullet will be in the neighborhood of 1500 fps in a 45-120 (Dependent on case length and amount of powder). Shooting Black means you should be shooting cast bullets, not jacketed.
Regards,
Bill
Last edited on Sat May 30th, 2009 05:31 PM by BPCR Bill
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| Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2009 12:37 AM |
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Timberghozt
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I shoot a Marlin 1895 with a 300 grain Hornady HP ,velocity runs 2200 and some change if I recall right.,
It kicks the snot out of me..I`d rather load a cast bullet at modest speeds.Not sure about blackpowder but at full bore loads that 1895 is a kicking beast.
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"He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster; For if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - F.Nietzche
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| Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2009 12:43 AM |
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Ranch 13
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Gene slow that thing down to about 1600, it'll kill just as good on the recieving end and not so badly on the giving end.
Bill good to see ya here, see you in a couple of weeks at Forsythe
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| Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2009 02:47 PM |
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BPCR Bill
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Ranch 13 wrote: You Bet Don, It'll be good to be back in Gods Country and Al Lees little pasture!
Gene slow that thing down to about 1600, it'll kill just as good on the recieving end and not so badly on the giving end.
Bill good to see ya here, see you in a couple of weeks at Forsythe
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Mark Twain
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| Posted: Thu Jun 4th, 2009 02:55 PM |
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Ranch 13
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Senior Chief, won't be getting to Billings until 9pm on thursday, the IT speciallist will get in at 8. Think I'll try to get to Al's and get camp setup by about noon, and then take off for the airport around 4. Hope its not so crowded the boys can't get some practice rounds in Friday.
Weather is cooperating , so it's looking like Doc and I will shoot Big Hill .
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BPCR Bill
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LilMag wrote: Gentlemen, is it possible to purchase a Sharps or Rolling Block reproduction rifle, that will in fact be able to shoot the modern 45/70 cartridges at todays PSI (40,000) and velocities (1600fps) using smokeless powder out of a Marlin model 1895 using a 400 grain bullet???
I had looked up in my book "Cartridges Of The World" trying to compare the Sharps 45/110 or 45/120 velocity's and bullet weights. However, I was a little confused as to the way things were pictured and set in print.
Thank You for your interests!
I just had to re-read that first question. First of all, Shiloh Sharps will warranty their rifles chambered for modern smokeless rounds if fired with smokless. I.E 45-70, 38-55, 30-40 Krag. If you load smokeless in a 45-110, 50-90, 50-140, rounds meant for Black Powder, and you damage the rifle, you are SOL, no warranty. I don't know about Pedersoli and the rest, you would have to speak with Dick Trenk or some other authority. I have an Uberti 38-55 and they state that they will only warranty if the rifle has been fired with factory smokless, no reloads allowed.
The big cartridges like the 45-110, just stick with BP. You can have all sorts of problems with smokless, like detonation and blown rifles. And I agree, the 45-70 can be pretty brutal with smokless loads in a light rifle. I shot a Ruger #1 in 45-70 with some hopped up smokless, and it was not fun in the least.
Regards,
Bill
____________________
In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made School Boards.
Mark Twain
NRA Endowment
ASSRA Member
US Navy Retired
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