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Cartridges and bullets for Africa

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  • Cartridges and bullets for Africa

    The big bores get 'all the press' and little of the action on most safaris. The 'Working' rifle gets used most of the time. Animals from a 10 lb. Dik Dik to the 1,800 lb. Eland.

    Ok, time to step on toes. List your choices.

    I have strong opinions on what I think, let's hear your choices.

    Best,
    Phil
    Best,
    Phil

    Stay out of sight and downwind
    Professional Hunter / Tanzania
    [url]www.go-on-safari.com[/url]
    [url]www.go-on-safari.com/talk[/url]

  • #2


    I'm kinda torn. I've got foursporter weight rifles that I'd love to have with me if I were to ever make a hunting trip to Africa :

    Ruger M77 Mark II .264 WinMag loaded with a 120 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip.

    Springfield 1903 .280 Ackley Improved loaded with a 140 gr. Nosler AccuBond.

    Sako TRG-S 7.82 Warbird loaded with a 200 gr. Nosler AccuBond.

    Ruger M77 Mark II .358 STA loaded with a 280 gr. Swift A-Frame.

    If I wasn't going to be hunting anything larger then our Mulies, I wouldn't mind having either of the smaller two with me. But theSTA was built for my elk hunting needs and Iguess if I'm after everything on up to 1800 # Eland, that and it's A-Framewould probably be my primary rifle, with the Warbird serving back-up duties. >> klallen
    A Big Mouth Don\'t Make A Big Man !!!

    THE DUKE

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    • #3


      Remington 700 bdl in 7mm Mag w/175gr SP

      Lazermark Weatherby in 300 Wby Mag 220gr RN

      McMillan Safari in 375 H&H 300gr RN
      http://www.northeasternoutdoors.com/firearms.htm

      Comment


      • #4


        Well for plains game it would be my 375 WSM or 300 Win Mag. the load for the 375 would be a 300grs. Barnes XBT or a Swift A-frame

        For the 300 Win.mag. would be a 200gr. XBT or a 200gr. Accubond or swift .

        The rifle I have these in are a Montana Rifle Co. 1999 action with a Lother Walther barrel and a HS Prec. Stock with a Burris2.5 to 10 Black diamondfor the 375WSM

        the 300 Win Mag. is a Winchester Mod.70 Custom built by Rick Armour of KY. is a Shilen #4 27" SS barrel HS Prec. stock and Jewel Trigger set at 2.4Lbs. topped with a Burris 4.5 -14 Sig.





        since I am planning a hunt with Phil in 07 I have been thinking about this for awhile and slowly working on loads for both.



        Doc

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        • #5


          My PH owned two rifles, a silenced Sako in 222, and a 338Win. Mag.

          So, I brought the limit, two rifles, into S. Africa, a 300Win. Mag and a 6MMRemington; which I intended to used primarily on jackals and caracals.

          I shot every animal with that 6MM, never pulled the trigger on the 300 after sighting it in. That includes a few fair size animals, wildebeeste, kudu, blesbuck, wart hogs. I think I was a little disappointed, but that's the way things worked out. Of course, there was nothing dangerous on the laundry list.

          Good hunting. LB

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          • #6


            Personally, I think some of the choices here are better than others.

            I think there are some bullets that are quite 'light' for an Eland, Zebra, Sable, Roan etc..

            I answered a post on the Barnes X in the bullet section of this forum regarding bullets.

            Sorry, but I am sure I will step on some toes with this topic an my opnion.

            Can only relate what I see or have seen.

            However, sometimes I say one thing and don't heed my own advise. Yes, it's true, I shot a Zebra with a 243. I know Zebra are tough, but it seemed like a good idea at the time.

            It was a L O N G tracking job, with more shots being fired. Finally, I got 500 grains of lead in him . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100 grain at a time.

            I will comment on the choices after a few more respond.

            Best,
            Phil
            Best,
            Phil

            Stay out of sight and downwind
            Professional Hunter / Tanzania
            [url]www.go-on-safari.com[/url]
            [url]www.go-on-safari.com/talk[/url]

            Comment


            • #7


              Hey Phil, don't worry about stepping on Toes here. you have been there and done that and you are the pro on this .

              All i can say is that I have taken your advice and started working on loads for the 300 Winny in the 200gr. line



              Thanks for posting this as it makes you think



              doc

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              • #8


                A .243 with a 90-100gr load that is accurate to 300yds.

                A .35 Whelen with a 214gr rn gc at 2600 fps, this gives me 1" at 100yds, I would take anything less than Elephant with it and Elephant if it was a heart/ lung shot from a reasonable distance, between 75 and 150 yds.

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                • #9


                  Make no mistake, I am not advocating a 6MM Remington as an all around plains game cartridge. Kinda like Phil said about plugging a zebra witha 243, what are you going to do, when the chips are on the line and that's all you have in your hands? On the other hand, (without bragging) I should mention that I had ALL one shot kills.

                  As to what might be the best choice for a "working rifle". I think, based on my conversations on the availability of factory ammunition in Africa, (although I used only handloads) that a 300 Win. Mag is a sound choice, based on what I saw. Any animal I killed with the 6MM, I could also have killed with the 300, and other than as a "back up" rifle,I would have no problem with a one gun 300 Win Mag battery, withcarefully selected handloads.

                  Big five stuff? That's another very big subject. So, yes, you need a 416 or 375 for dangerous game, but for everything else, I can't see any reason why a 300Win Mag can't handle "working gun" chores?

                  ......as long as you are honest in your ability to handle it.



                  Good hunting. LB

                  Comment


                  • #10


                    A few more replies and I will give you my views.

                    Best,
                    Phil
                    Best,
                    Phil

                    Stay out of sight and downwind
                    Professional Hunter / Tanzania
                    [url]www.go-on-safari.com[/url]
                    [url]www.go-on-safari.com/talk[/url]

                    Comment


                    • #11


                      OK,
                      I am back from SCI and have a few minutes to put in my choices.

                      The first thing I would choose would be a heavy for caliber bullet in 7mm to 35 cals. and for sure not any kind of 'plastic' tipped bullet.

                      Yes they are accurate, but I have not seem good performance from them on larger African game.

                      I would choose (from small to large calibers) - 7mm Mag., 300 Mag., 338 Mag. and my beloved 35 Whelen.

                      All would work very well. Others will work as well, but these would be my choices.

                      For bullets I would choose 175's for the 7mm, 200's (or 220's) for the 300's, and 250's in the 338 and 35.

                      A 375 would be a good choice as well (but I think too much for many of the animals, but a reasonable choice).

                      None of these (except the 375) is adequate for dangerous game. Yes, they will kill them, but not really suited for DG.

                      In truth, bullet construction/performance is the key to all of these cartridges. Bullets I really like are, Woodleigh's and Swifts. Other custom bullet makers are good as well, but these seem the easiest to obtain.

                      OK, let the debate begin.

                      Best,
                      Phil
                      Best,
                      Phil

                      Stay out of sight and downwind
                      Professional Hunter / Tanzania
                      [url]www.go-on-safari.com[/url]
                      [url]www.go-on-safari.com/talk[/url]

                      Comment


                      • #12


                        Well I was pretty close.
                        http://www.northeasternoutdoors.com/firearms.htm

                        Comment


                        • #13


                          Big John,

                          I'd say you were a little closer that 'pretty close'.

                          About nailed it, guy.

                          As I said these are my choices and opinions from what I have seen that work pretty well on African animals.

                          Also, in the group I listed, some work better than others.

                          Best,
                          Phil
                          Best,
                          Phil

                          Stay out of sight and downwind
                          Professional Hunter / Tanzania
                          [url]www.go-on-safari.com[/url]
                          [url]www.go-on-safari.com/talk[/url]

                          Comment


                          • #14


                            Well you know I just like those particular calibers, my favorite is the .300 Weatherby, it tends to want to kick my ass out of the tree stand but I like the result on the other end.
                            http://www.northeasternoutdoors.com/firearms.htm

                            Comment


                            • #15


                              PhilLozano wrote:
                              The first thing I would choose would be a heavy for caliber bullet in 7mm to 35 cals. and for sure not any kind of 'plastic' tipped bullet.
                              Howdy PHILLOZANO >> Thought you forgot about this topic. Response has been a while coming. It is an interesting topic to me. This general aversion to "plastic tipped bullets" is a curiousity to me.Have you ever used or seenthe newAccuBonds usedon game over there?

                              Had conversations with severalperfessional guides that happened to make the trip to town for a local outdoor / hunting / fishingshow last year and it was interesting. Was chatting with one in particular thatmentioned something that really stuck with me.We were talking about what was needed for successfully hunting in Africa on the gameI would most be interested in hunting(cartridges, bulletsand the like) and he said that some 80% - 85%of all huntable animals in Africa were of similar size or smallerthen our Mule Deer species. Understanding the weights of theMulies that "I" hunt, I took this to mean 80% - 85% of African animalsmight weighin at350# - 400#. Some, much, much smaller.And if we moved up toanimals the size of our elk(800# - 1000#), that percentage grew to 95% of African game that was similar sized or smaller. He didn't specify, but I assumed the top 5% includingthe dangerous 5, the largest of African antelope, girrafe(sp) and other real bigstuff. Really though, the conversation about the animals in that top 5% wasn'twhat interested me. The deer portion of thechatis what interested me most. He went on to say thatanycartridge / bullet combothat we had confidence in, that had proven effective on Mule Deerwould function wonderfully on the vast majority of anything that could be huntedwith him over in his neck of the woods. We mentioned about theabout the near mythical way in which African game wasdiscussed.Their toughness and sheer unwillingness to die.He kinda chuckled andstressed that just like hunting deer over here,bullet placement over bullet construction was the importantissue with game the size we were talking about. Of course, issues of importance changedwhen the size of animal huntedincreased, but within the scope of our animals talked about, he said some things that I might haveassumed but enjoyed hearing come from someone who'd hunted over there.

                              So, here's where my curiousity is raised from the above comment ... I've had resounding success with Ballistic Tips on Mule Deer over the yearsand have an extremelevel of confidence in them on thissizedgame. Throw thebonded core AccuBondinto the picture andI wouldn't hesitate to hunt Elk withthe heavy for caliber offerings. Now, if the percentages quoted by this African feller be anywhere close to correct, would it be reasonable to expect the same level of successI've enjoyed on Mule Deer here in thestatesover in Africa on plains game that weight in at400# and less? With what I've seen using the160 gr. .284 and 200 gr. .308 AccuBonds, I just have a hard time warming to the ideathateither of these wouldn't knock thehell out of anything of reasonable size that I placed a quality hit on, even with thembeing a poly-tipped bullet. Chat with ya later. >> klallen
                              A Big Mouth Don\'t Make A Big Man !!!

                              THE DUKE

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