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  • #31
    Yep, as I mentioned in my earlier post, old tired subject, 99.9% speculation w/no facts and is impossible to reach a consensus...
    I\'ve learned to stand on my own two knees...

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    • #32
      Originally posted by swampshooter View Post
      All legal experts agree that reloading your own SD cartridges is a bad idea if you ever have to go to court. A box of ammo doesn't cost that much. I shoot factory loads for SD, light or mid-range loads for practice.
      What "legal" experts?

      Ammo, as long as it's legal, is insignificant. The controlling law is at the time deadly forced was used, was it justifiable.

      California Penal Code Section 197, Justifiable Homicide: https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-c...-sect-197.html

      If you're in fear of your life or the life of another, you ought to be good to go.

      The felony-murder rule is also good to know.

      I've never, ever heard of reloaded ammo being an issue.

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      • #33
        I couldn't tell you the last time I've carried a handgun. I can anywhere the American flag flies. But I'm darn good -or lucky- at avoiding bad dudes. I did see a Mexican Mafia (ID'd by tattoos) banger the other day, but there were cops everywhere. It was at a college graduation and away from my safe city He wasn't looking to start trouble.

        Were I so inclined, I'd use hand loaded ammo in a carry handgun. But I don't like carefully measuring every powder charge and assuring perfect bullet seating thus assuring reliable feeding. And I doubt that I could improve upon a box of Federal HST Tactical ammo. So I load at the low end where a tenth or two grains one way or the other ain't gonna matter. As long as they'll poke holes in paper, I'm good.

        A box of Federal HST Tactical ammo will last longer than my lifetime.

        It ain't the ammo. It's whether deadly force is justified.

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        • #34
          It's not either that you are that good or that lucky SA1911, sorry to "be a bubble burster" lol.

          One thing that most of the gun-carriers seem to either ignore, or deliberately talk themselves out of (which borders on 'deluding oneself') is the fact that, statistics are statistics and lightning does strike almost anywhere, BUT, lightning seldom hits a flat farm field while it hits the Empire State Building thousands of times a year.

          If you surround yourself with stupid people and stupid activities (mostly gang bangers, people with violent and or drug histories, and or associate even remotely with the drug trade), you make yourself the Empire State Building.

          The Stupid Rule.

          If you keep stupid away from yourself, do not hang out with bangers or the drug trade (including people who just use), you reduce the risks to your personal safety from violent people some 90-95%

          Really, violent crime in this country is MOSTLY confined to a narrow segment of the population, stay out of that segment, your risks fall tremendously.

          We all 'know' this I am pretty sure, 'keeping out of bad areas', and so forth, we just seldom look at it like the above.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Damannoyed View Post
            It's not either that you are that good or that lucky SA1911, sorry to "be a bubble burster" lol.

            One thing that most of the gun-carriers seem to either ignore, or deliberately talk themselves out of (which borders on 'deluding oneself') is the fact that, statistics are statistics and lightning does strike almost anywhere, BUT, lightning seldom hits a flat farm field while it hits the Empire State Building thousands of times a year.

            If you surround yourself with stupid people and stupid activities (mostly gang bangers, people with violent and or drug histories, and or associate even remotely with the drug trade), you make yourself the Empire State Building.

            The Stupid Rule.

            If you keep stupid away from yourself, do not hang out with bangers or the drug trade (including people who just use), you reduce the risks to your personal safety from violent people some 90-95%

            Really, violent crime in this country is MOSTLY confined to a narrow segment of the population, stay out of that segment, your risks fall tremendously.

            We all 'know' this I am pretty sure, 'keeping out of bad areas', and so forth, we just seldom look at it like the above.
            Well said.
            "The United States Marine Corps is a drug and I am a recovering addict."

            "American by birthright… U.S. MARINE by the Grace of GOD!"

            "And on the 8th day God created Marines and like fish, we came from the sea!"

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            • #36
              The Rules of Stupid:

              1 Don't go stupid places at stupid times
              2 Don't do stupid things with stupid people

              Or the condensed version:

              Don't go stupid places at stupid times with stupid people and do stupid things.
              If it weren't for double standards, liberals would have no standards at all.

              "Ammo and really good friends are hard to find in a gunfight so I bring them with me" E. J. Owens

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              • #37
                Good Morning, Damannoyed,

                You have it wired. Your post contained great advice for all who like remaining vertical.

                I can still hear words of a professional firearms instructor: the only way to survive a gunfight is to not get in one. Of course, we had to respond to high risk calls. What the instructor was telling us was to think before arriving on scene. There will be times where professionals won't be able to avoid, even with their most superb response plans. Also, professionals have luxury of show of force: 10 cops on scene are conveying to a bad guy that he can't win; hence, surrendering to process of law without gun play would be his wise choice.

                For those of us who don't have to intervene, avoid at all costs. A gunfight, by definition, means a bad guy wants to room temperature a good guy.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Ozark Ed View Post
                  The Rules of Stupid:

                  1 Don't go stupid places at stupid times
                  2 Don't do stupid things with stupid people

                  Or the condensed version:

                  Don't go stupid places at stupid times with stupid people and do stupid things.
                  Great advice.

                  I try to avoid stupid places at all times, especially LA.

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                  • #39
                    I would think that if one were so concerned about the ammo they might use in their carry guns, they should just leave their guns at home as any shooting can, and often does end up in court, regardless of the shape of the bullet...
                    I\'ve learned to stand on my own two knees...

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                    • #40
                      One of the major problems is that the courts will not allow you to manufacture your own ammo for testing to be submitted as evidence. So claims of distance, etc. can not be supported by things such as powder burns. So if you claim that you shot the bad guy at 3 feet and his hoodlum buddies claim it was 25 feet there are no ballistic tests that will be allowed in court to support your claim. The courts ballistic labs will test factory ammo, but not your reloads.
                      NRA Endowment member
                      NRA Range Technical Team Advisor
                      TSRA member
                      NRA certified pistol coach-Retired
                      NRA classified Master, F-Class mid-range
                      Velocity is like a new car, always losing value
                      BC is like diamonds, maintaining value forever

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                      • #41
                        I'm not making any friends in this thread! So far, all I've heard about being prosecuted for using handloads is speculation! Aka; WAG. Only the judge of a specific court, the attorneys for a specific proceeding, can say what will be allowed as "evidence".....
                        I\'ve learned to stand on my own two knees...

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Ozark Ed View Post
                          The Rules of Stupid:

                          1 Don't go stupid places at stupid times
                          2 Don't do stupid things with stupid people

                          Or the condensed version:

                          Don't go stupid places at stupid times with stupid people and do stupid things.
                          There are those of us who are the exception, me for example. Walk a day in my shoes, you'll never be without your gun.
                          I constantly drill, not because I want to prepare for what might happen, but because I want to be prepared for the next time it happens. And it not just me, my wife, sons, have also faced deadly circumstance as well. We don't live risky lives, we don't associate with those who are involved with risky behavior, we're simply the exception.
                          HBC

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                          • #43
                            So you are Reg, the Human Lightning Rod from The Great Outdoors...........................

                            Click image for larger version

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                            • #44
                              I suppose one could use that compraison, both are very deadly events, both are also some what rare ocurances, so yes that shoe fits. I don't give a moment thought about of facing an over zealous prosecutor, judged by a jury of my peers is and will always be my chosen option. Yes your honor, I did deliberately choose to stop the advancing threat, and as quickly as feaseably possible.
                              to each his own, as for me and my family, we choose to be survivors, lethal force is lethal force, a baseball bat could be depicted as inhumane, beating someone to death could also appear as uncontrolled rage.
                              HBC

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                              • #45
                                All very good comments to the same old question.
                                Does any one know of a case that went to court involving home made SD rounds or a SD with off the shelf rounds?
                                Vietnam Vet USMC

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