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weird powder burn on 9mm case

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  • weird powder burn on 9mm case

    can anyone tell me what this is and how to fix it? Click image for larger version

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  • #2
    im asking about the huge black burn on the side of the case. It happens with every case and it isn't just soot. It is hard to get off my tumbler will not even take it all the way off

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    • #3
      Did this just start with a load you have been using?

      Usually happens with light loads. Case not sealing. Light bullets and slow powder exacerbate the problem.
      Endeavor to persevere.

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      • #4
        It would help us answer your question if you would provide:

        Powder type and charge
        Primer
        Bullet including weight
        Firearm

        What deaddog says is most probable cause, but we can't be sure without more info.
        Wimachtendienk, Wingolauchsik, Witahemui

        He who knows not and knows not that he knows not, is a fool.
        He who knows not and knows he knows not, is wise.

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        • #5
          Best simple guess.... This is the classic sign for not enough pressure developed to expand the brass case and seal the burning gas in . The gas gets by the case and blackens it.
          Basically your load is too light or you are using a powder not suitable for the 9mm round.
          Give us some clues :
          1.) bullet weight and construction -jacketed, plated or lead
          2.) powder used
          3.) weight of charge used

          These pesky details matter...help us help you !
          Gary

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          • #6
            My 9mm does that all the time. I mainly use Federal Lawman 124 gr FMJ, in it. I have started handloading for it with the Federal brass, 4.2 gr Bullseye with 124 gr Badman Bullet polymer RN and it also does it. 4.2 grains of Bullseye is sliightly under the max charge.
            My vibratory tumbler takes it off with corn cob with Lyman Turbo Charger Media Reactivator does a good job in removing it.
            I thought it was normal.
            My pistol has a ramped barrel.
            "The United States Marine Corps is a drug and I am a recovering addict."

            "American by birthright… U.S. MARINE by the Grace of GOD!"

            "And on the 8th day God created Marines and like fish, we came from the sea!"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by gwpercle View Post
              Best simple guess.... This is the classic sign for not enough pressure developed to expand the brass case and seal the burning gas in . The gas gets by the case and blackens it.
              Basically your load is too light or you are using a powder not suitable for the 9mm round.
              Give us some clues :
              1.) bullet weight and construction -jacketed, plated or lead
              2.) powder used
              3.) weight of charge used

              These pesky details matter...help us help you !
              Gary
              I concur with the above statement.
              I see this all the time when using Unique in 38spl wadcutter loads. Not enough pressure. 9mm on the other hand generally is of high enough pressure that just about any suitable powder will combust cleanly in it. What bullet weight, powder and charge are you using? Cast bullets? Cast , due to the reduced friction vs jacketed can have lower pressures and also cause this. Some powders need a certain level of pressure to burn cleanly and some cases need a level of pressure to expand enough to fully seal itself against the chamber walls. Try some Hodgdon Titegroup in the 9mm. It runs clean in mine.

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              • #8
                can anyone tell me what this is and how to fix it?
                Underpressure load.

                Add more gunpowder.

                What IS that load?

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                • #9
                  im using Berrys plated 115, 4.9 gr of CFE pistol, with a Winchester small pistol primer
                  I was thinking it looked like the case wasn't expanding enough but im about middle of the charge weight for the bullet according to hornadys manual. I didn't really want to go any higher being that I am using a plated bullet and not the fmj that I was using for the data.

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                  • #10
                    Loaded 5 rds 124 gr RM Badman Polymer coated bullets in Federal new and once fired Federal cases in my pistol. Win primers and 4.4 gr Bulleyes. That is a .2 gr increase from previous. Also fired 5 rds Federal Lawman 124 gr fmj. The frint riw in the factory loads and rear row my loads.
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by DesertMarine; 1 week ago.
                    "The United States Marine Corps is a drug and I am a recovering addict."

                    "American by birthright… U.S. MARINE by the Grace of GOD!"

                    "And on the 8th day God created Marines and like fish, we came from the sea!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by scout180 View Post
                      im using Berrys plated 115, 4.9 gr of CFE pistol, with a Winchester small pistol primer
                      I was thinking it looked like the case wasn't expanding enough but im about middle of the charge weight for the bullet according to hornadys manual. I didn't really want to go any higher being that I am using a plated bullet and not the fmj that I was using for the data.
                      CFE pistol is a fairly slow handgun powder, slower than Power Pistol, slower than the casefull of N340 I am using in my 9mmJHP load.

                      115gr is a pretty light bullet in 9mmParabelum (mighty heavy in .3800acp).

                      IMO a bad match for a "plinking" load, trying to download a slow "Power-Powder" to a modest velocity for "light" ammo.

                      According to Hodgdon data, At an OAL of 1.125", the starting charge is 5.3gr making only 23,000psi. Full Bark is 5.9gr making under 32,000psi.

                      You are running 4.9gr at an unknown OAL.

                      Unless your OAL is IMO SIGNIFICANTLY SHORTER than 1.125", and you are only making 16-17,000psi, 20 if you are lucky.

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                      • #12
                        I did the same thing with Berrys 124THP and 3.8 Titegroup OAL 1.14 and I upped the powered to 4.0 and OAL to 1.12 and that fixed it.. I've switched to Hornady XTP 124gHP
                        Jim Thorpe , PA How do you stop a bad guy with a gun? Don't take away the good guys gun rights..

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                        • #13
                          Yep, more powder and shorter oal equals more pressure equals better case seal against combustion gasses.

                          It (case sooting) is also common in rifle rounds driven too lightly.

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                          • #14
                            Looked in my Hornady X manual.

                            CFE under a 115gr RN @ 1.100" OAL (I do not consider that OAL to be drastically shorter than 1.125"), Start load of 4.7gr making 1,000fps. Maximum load of 5.8gr (almost identical to Hodgdon's) giving 1200fps or more.

                            Much better way to get 1,050 to 1100fps for that bullet is Titegroup, Universal. Accurate #2, W-231, Bullseye, and similars. Near-max. charges in the 4-to-5 grain range give only 1100fps instead of 1200-1250fps and a tight chamber seal.

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                            • #15
                              Personally, as long as the load you've been shooting is doing OK , I'd consider living with the soot. For everyone calling to up the pressure by shortening OAL and increasing powder beware.. The 9mm is already operating at very high pressures compared to some. Not that the 9mm can't handle very high pressures , but it very much depends on WHAT chamber you are shooting the max loads in. Not all pistols have fully supported chambers and unless you're using new unfired cases you risk blowing out the unsupported portion of the case and at minimum ruining the frame . While mostly this is a 40S&W issue, but it also has happened in 9mm. If you shoot a Glock you have an unsupported chamber. This is why Glock says no reloads. My 9mm is an old Ruger P89 and laughs at high pressure loads, but these days not all are built like army tanks

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