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  • High Tek

    I am looking for powder for use with 9mm 115Gr. high tek bullets. can I use lead or jacketed published information?

  • #2
    Either one.

    Now, the more detailed answer notes that they are nothing more special than a powder coated cast bullet, so they are a cast lead bullet, same as any PLATED bullet, the P.C. and the Plating are way too thin to matter to the load data.

    In the unending debate over the "difference" between cast and jacketed bullets, at the load-data level, NONE of us debating it have any access to pressure testing machinery, so we have no real proof to back up many of our assertions.
    Jacket material is harder than even "hard"-cast lead.
    Jacket material has more friction down a steel barrel than lead.
    Cast Lead bullets are normally BIGGER than the bore size, so they have to be swaged to size, in the barrel, making a tighter fit, which increases their friction down the barrel while jacketed bullet just barely 'fit' the barrel correctly.

    Where does it come out in the wash? THAT is the entire 'discussion', and IMO no-one really has a solid, definitive answer.

    If you look at load data that uses both cast and jacketed bullets, you see TWO things:
    In low-velocity guns (below around 1,000fps) you see little to no difference in the load data.
    In guns capable of high velocities, (mostly magnum handguns) you see reduced CAST loads not to address "higher pressures" but to reduce velocity to prevent lead stripping in the barrel because the cast is just too soft.

    Now, there IS A MAJOR DIFFERENCE when you wade into non-lead-core bullets, the various "all-copper-alloys", because, for the same grain weight they are LONGER, which causes TWO problems that must be addressed:
    For the same OAL they seat deeper, reducing case volume, which increases pressures (in some cartridges a little, in some A LOT, this depends on various factors)
    They have longer bearing surfaces, and so have higher barrel drag, which increases initial pressures.
    This is a far different ball game though from the old "cast/jacketed" lead-core construction bullet realm, so don't let it confuse the issue.

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    • #3
      The first "coated" bullets I tried were Precision Hi-Tek bullets ("Black Bullets"). I started in 45 ACP using lead bullet data and when I started PCing my own, I stayed with lead bullet data and methods. Worked quite well...
      I\'ve learned to stand on my own two knees...

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      • #4
        Hi-Tek isn't powder coating.
        it is multiple coatings of a cross linked polymer.

        powder coat isn't just powder coat either there are a few different recipes.
        some are cyanic [gasses off a little cyanide] in nature, and others are a poly.

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        • #5
          Ok,, so they are PLASTIC-coated....... Still same answer.

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          • #6
            yeah chuckle, nothing really changes on the reloading front.
            powder coat is slicker than either jacketed or naked cast bullets so quite often needs a slightly higher powder amount to gain back the velocity, similar to when moly coated rifle bullets come out.

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            • #7
              Thread drift:

              After reading the above info I made me think that in theory one could use the same powder charge ben the same internal volume brass behind identical weight jacketed and high tech coated bullets out of the same toughly cleaned barrel for each load and whichever one produce a higher average velocity would be the one producing higher pressure.
              Or someone could but me a contender in a pistol caliber so I could attach my pressure trace to it.
              When the hammer drops the BS stops.

              Don't let them beat you down with their inexperience.

              You won't know until You Actually try it.

              The impossible just takes longer.

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              • #8
                or the one with less friction would produce less pressure because it's moving away from the gas volume faster.
                you don't need a strain gauge to tell you that, a 20 dollar LEE sizer will show you which one has less friction.

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                • #9
                  Good point on the size die.
                  An inexpensive torque meter can be attached to the handle of the press to measure the difference in force needed.
                  The die would need to be small enough to actually size the jacketed bullet also.
                  Last edited by president100; 4 weeks ago.
                  When the hammer drops the BS stops.

                  Don't let them beat you down with their inexperience.

                  You won't know until You Actually try it.

                  The impossible just takes longer.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    .357 designed bullets through a 9mm size die?

                    When the hammer drops the BS stops.

                    Don't let them beat you down with their inexperience.

                    You won't know until You Actually try it.

                    The impossible just takes longer.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by runfiverun View Post
                      yeah chuckle, nothing really changes on the reloading front.
                      powder coat is slicker than either jacketed or naked cast bullets so quite often needs a slightly higher powder amount to gain back the velocity, similar to when moly coated rifle bullets come out.
                      More powder behind the same bullet makes more pressure, so the bullets with less friction require more pressure to obtain the same velocity as higher friction bullets. Moly vs. bare jacketed.

                      One of the many reasons I got away from the moly coated mess. More powder = more gas cutting = shorter throat life. Not a great big deal for the casual shooter but if one is shooting 6500-10,000
                      rounds a year competitively it is. Another huge one for competitive shooting is that settle in after cleaning.

                      When the hammer drops the BS stops.

                      Don't let them beat you down with their inexperience.

                      You won't know until You Actually try it.

                      The impossible just takes longer.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by steve_l View Post
                        I am looking for powder for use with 9mm 115Gr. high tek bullets. can I use lead or jacketed published information?
                        Most of the time, probably.

                        With the various different lead bullets you can use in a 9mm, I find the best way to approach a load is to start at the lower end of the range with any suitable powder, (not even sure how many that would even be), and increase charge weight until you see excessive leading. Depending on your "9", some bullets may not be suitable. They lead badly before the gun cycles reliably.
                        Experience is what you get, when you don\'t get what you want ;-)

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                        • #13
                          more powder would equal more pressure if the friction value were the same.
                          the slicker bullet enters the barrel easier avoiding the initial pressure spike and is further away from the source of the gas volume making it harder for the pressure to be made.
                          you need more powder to make the same pressure.
                          it's just like shooting a lighter payload.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have had leading problems with high tec in multiple handgun calibers if velocity gets above 900 FPS or so. I am not sold on coatings or commercial hard bevel base bullets. I get little leading at much higher velocity with home cast flat base bullets lubed with traditional lube. You can tumble the commercial bullets in lee liquid Alox and that usually alleviates the leading.

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                            • #15
                              I personally have not seen a leading occur with my cast and PC bullets across multiple calibers. That could change I assume if you build magnum loads at higher velocities.

                              Bottom line on 9mm load data, use either cast lead or plated bullet data and you will have lots of powder choices. There a handful of powders that work fine in 9mm. A personal choice is AA5 for me mainly because it measures so easily and can be used in many calibers. So I keep an 8 lb jug at my loading bench.

                              I have used Bullseye, Unique, Hp38, W231, PowerPistol also. It kinda depends on what powder is available off the shelf locally. I usually order my powder online a couple times a year. If you order enough, the hazmat and shipping fees aren’t a big factor. It’s still $8 to $10 cheaper per pound over local retail. Buying a brick of primers online saves a ton. I usually get with a couple of other hand loaders and we order bulk powder and primers together which takes the bit out of those additional fees.
                              “It’s better to have a gun and not need it, rather than need a gun and not have it”

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