Announcement

Collapse

New Chat Room

The new chat room is floating on the bottom right hand corner of your screen. You will have to login to chat. But don't forget to log out when you are done, otherwise it will keep you listed as active.
See more
See less

Accuracy

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    In LR/XLR the cartridges are first tuned for velocity nodes for exactly this reason. You don’t do ladder loads for groups like in BR shooting. Those flat spots can be so wide that .3gr doesn’t make that much difference. You are not going to get SD/ESs below match grade ammunition unless you are first loading for the velocity nodes. There are top competitors who use a powder throw.

    If if you have a decent ballistic program (like Litz’s Applied Balistics) that shows shot dispersion at range it’s easy enough to play with and demonstrate how much more important it is to have low SD/ES and low vertical dispersion than it is to have a 1/4” rifle. You cannot get there merely by weighing, even if you’re cutting kernels to the thousandths place. I don’t care if you use a Prometheus or weigh on a vacuum sealed micrometer balance. You have to find the tune and the flat velocity nodes or you won’t get there. There is no shortcut in loading that will short circuit load development, and if you’re pushing out there that means loading for speed rather than tight groups @ 100yds.
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by 13 Papa View Post
      Not sure if this should be in the Tools of the trade section but, for the folks that reload for long range accuracy, such as F class, will 1/10 gr variance affect the round? Is it enough to worry about?
      Im looking at scales and wondering if something like a Lyman 1200 will be accurate enough for precision loads.
      Yes, I have a Lyman 1200 its in the box(don't use it) I throw all charges then trickle on my RCBS 505

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Timv View Post

        I throw all charges then trickle on my RCBS 505
        That's the way I do all my rifle loads too.

        Comment


        • #19
          For me the simple answers, that if I have a powder where the accuracy nodes are so narrow that +/- a tenth of a grain makes that much difference, I change the powder. Plenty of options out there these days.

          Comment


          • #20
            I think differences in pieces of brass impact consistency more than .1 grains of charge. Both are changing pressure, but I am seeing much bigger differences with brass than I am with ladder testing.
            Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.
            -Winston Churchill

            Comment


            • #21
              Thank You to everyone, for hanging in there with me on this. It really shouldnt have taken this long. Some days I wonder, just how dense can I be? Please dont answer that.
              I was reading the first few chapters in my new Lyman reloading manual and looking online at various tools. That includes milling over this scale issue and it finally clicked. I was worrying about something trivial and didnt understand why. I even chuckled at the thought of seeing myself cutting tiny pieces of powder in half. That really wasnt my intention but, it must have been where that thought process was headed. I really feel quite bone headed.
              Anyhoo, ordered a scale. Got the RCBS Chargemaster Lite. About $100 cheaper than the larger version. It goes to 300 gr and I dont see myself loading anything that large. I also ordered a case trimmer and some check weights.
              Few more items off the list I guess.

              Comment


              • #22
                Chronograph your ammo and if your extreme spread is over 10 fps you will not shoot good scores at 1,000 yards. A scale that reads to .002 is absolutely necessary to weigh brass, powder, and primers. From the answers given above it doesn't sound to me like any of them have ever shoot 1,000 competition. I'm classified Master @ 600 yds. and Expert @ 1,000 yds. Of the above answers DesertMarine"s was correct. Powder charges have to be weighed down to the individual granule. If your scale will not do that then it is not accurate enough for long range shooting, To elaborate on Robert MT's post I'll say this. Until you and your rifle can shoot under moa at 600 yds. and under, don't worry about 1,000 yds. Learning to dope the wind is the most important aspect of long range shooting and that requires thousands of rounds downrange with a good accurate rifle.
                NRA Endowment member
                NRA Range Technical Team Advisor
                TSRA member
                NRA certified pistol coach-Retired
                NRA classified Master, F-Class mid-range
                Velocity is like a new car, always losing value
                BC is like diamonds, maintaining value forever

                Comment


                • #23
                  Hi 13 Papa,

                  I have a friend who's in the pharmaceutical industry. He used to compound chemicals for medicine. For high tech NASA and pharmaceutical weighing where a flake of dust could affect outcome, he has told me that digital is the way to go. Scientific digital scales can weigh a pencil mark on paper.

                  I used to use an RCBS 5-0-5 scale. For a box of hunting ammo, it was doable. I'm not sure of its accuracy tolerances. I've grown lazy or have developed a pronounced disliking for tedious processes. So I bought an RCBS ChargeMaster. No buyer's remorse!

                  For low side target rounds, especially when I used to use unique, I've never lost sleep over .2 grain deviation. At the low side, it made no difference. Were I to approach maximum (big game loads), I've always demanded and still demand precision. A grain too much could lead to disaster.

                  I can completely understand how competitive shooters strive for absolute precision in all aspects of creating cartridges. I ain't sure that I'd have patience for such process.

                  Best of luck to you.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I finally got a day off work, first in two weeks, spent most of it working on getting my bench finished and organizing. It gave me time to mentally picture where I was at and where I wanted to go with it. So, I cancelled the order on the RCBS.

                    Even after I made up my mind I had a gut feeling it wasnt what I was after.

                    Im going with a A&D EJ-123. I wont always need to measure to .001 but this scale will do both, check my auto charge load for the progressive and single load weights for precision when the time comes.

                    I also ordered the Hornady single stage press kit. It comes with everything else I need to get started. I thought $259 from Midway was a pretty good price. I plan to use the single stage for decapping and resizing larger cases so im not putting all that force on the progressive.

                    As a bonus, case trimmer came in today from Brownells. I went with the Sinclair/Wilson. Ive read many good reviews on it and the whole setup just seemed to make sense to me for consistent and accurate case trimming.

                    Dial caliper and case cleaner to go and Im ready to start choosing bullets and powders. My Lord, what a process this has been for me, maybe for everyone thats followed along too. I think im ready for nap.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      The problem with variable velocity of match loads is that when shooting at a round target . if you go high or low the distance to the 8 or 9 ring is much closer. So it is much easier for a small shift in the wind to throw your shot out of the 10 ring.

                      A hunter shooting at the same ranges isn't quite so handicapped as the kill zone of an animal is more square than round. I would suggest that a practicing hunter shoot at a square or rectangular target instead of a round target when practicing at long range. The vitals of a doe are closer to 15" square and an elk's vitals are over 20" square, closer to 24" square.
                      Last edited by swampshooter; 6 days ago.
                      NRA Endowment member
                      NRA Range Technical Team Advisor
                      TSRA member
                      NRA certified pistol coach-Retired
                      NRA classified Master, F-Class mid-range
                      Velocity is like a new car, always losing value
                      BC is like diamonds, maintaining value forever

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X