Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sonic cleaner question

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I'm new here, so I hope you folks don't mind if I resurrect this thread.

    I've never understood the concept of decapping brass cleaning it, then shoving up a Resizing/Decapping Die. It seems like twice the Die work at the Reloading Press.

    I dump all My same caliber brass into a tumbler. Clean dirt, carbon off. Then inspect, this is when you will find neck splits, particularly in the old style WCF Cases; 44-40, 38-40, 32-20. Why do a bunch of stuff to a case that is bad already.

    This is when I size & decap.

    Time to expand the straight cases, because this is when the case mouth will split.

    I now either load the Brass or put it away for later.

    If I am going to Load it now, I will put it in the Sonic Cleaner. So it comes out all shiney and bright.
    I Hand Prime, and load on a Progressive for Regular Handgun rds or for Semi-Auto Rifles such as .30-06, 7.62x51 and/or 5.56x45.

    For Hot Handgun Loads, Accuracy Loads for Bolt, Lever or Single Shot; I load on a Single Stage & use a Lyman Electronic Powder Measure/Scale.

    Just My 2 cents worth.

    When I was a boy, My Dad used a small cement mixer with ground walnut shells to clean a thousand cases at a time.

    So I've always loaded clean brass.


    Comment


    • #17
      Walks - the universal depriming tools (they look like dies but are a tool) do not touch the case so the brass itself is never worked. The amount of time it takes to punch the primer is less than it takes to wipe down the outside of the case before putting it in a sizing die. So for those that don't like to size brass that has contaminants that may scratch the die, the process makes sense from a time perspective and pretty much eliminates the possibility of damaging a die.
      Friends don't let friends shoot factory ammo.

      Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.
      -Winston Churchill

      Comment


      • #18
        Your cleaning and sizing methods mirror mine Walks, but other people have other wants/priorities. and so they do it other ways.

        BTW, you will never find be UT (Ultrasonic) cleaning brass, it will simply eat it up. I have plenty of experience with soft metals (brass and aluminum) in UT tank cleaners at w**k, the cavitation slowly pits and tears up soft metals., they are fine on steel.

        I also load all but my "most demanded" (performance) ammo on a progressive, but I sure as heck don't hand-prime (I don't hand-prime for the non-progressive ammo either).

        My fired handgun brass, gets tumble cleaned and put away if not immediately reloaded.
        My fired rifle brass gets put back in it's boxes with it's live bretheren, until time to load, then tumble cleaned, sized/deprimed/trimmed, tumble cleaned (lube), primed and loaded.

        I have no concerns over "dirty" primer pockets, I went through that stage 30 yrs ago, quit cleaning them over 20 yrs ago, and have not had a single issue that was traceable even remotely to a "dirty primer pocket". I don't brush them, I don't uniform them, I remove pocket crimps when they exist (10 yrs (or so) ago I started swaging, before that I cut).


        LOTTA different ways to approach a LOT of aspects of this hobby.

        Comment


        • #19
          Golong,
          Decapping Dies came along, long after I started Reloading. I was gifted one, rarely use it. Like I said it seems a waste of effort and possible confusion for me. If a case has no primer it's because it was punched out in the sizing die. How can you be sure 6 months later if the brass was sized or just decapped ?

          Damannoyed,
          I was unaware of the problems with UltraSonic Cleaning. I've not used it that much. It too was a gift and I was cleaning and prepping cases for a friend, and I'm also big on the rinsing part. But since I'm back to Casting and am now Powder Coating it has seemed to be a step I can do without.
          But cleaning Primer Pockets is the way I was raised. My Dad even made Special tools 60+yrs ago, before any Manufacturer did.
          And also I've seen 30+yrs of Cowboy Shooters load their Revolvers and spin the Cylinders to check for high primers. "Slam Fast" reloading on a Progressive, for the uninitiated teaches nothing but how to have problems. I also have Tennis Elbow due to using a RCBS Press-Mounted Primer Pocket Swager to ream out 1500 once-fired G.I. .45ACP cases. So pushing forward on a press handle really aggravates it.
          I started Priming .38spl cases with a 310 Tong Tool, sitting on the garage floor. I was 4yrs old, before that, I was hanging on a press handle to pull it down.
          Just My Way, something to do while My Wife watches TV. And I haven't had a high primer, since I can't remember when



          Comment


          • #20
            Walks , if I am storing my brass before fully processing it then it goes in to bins that are labeled. The labels have a place to check off where they are in the process. The non-label way would be to measure a piece of brass. Too wide of a body has not been sized. I suppose it is also possible to visually inspect the brass especially if you don't ever polish it as the sizing die would leave a nice shiny on the body towards the head, but I am not sure that I am comfortable with that one.

            Dedicated depriming certainly is not for everyone. The point of my original comment was mainly to clarify that it does not work the brass, and secondly that it does not necessarily increase time. With that, I prime my brass in a separate step even when using a turret press.
            Friends don't let friends shoot factory ammo.

            Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.
            -Winston Churchill

            Comment


            • #21
              A lot of people don't understand the risks of UT cleaning brass Walks, it is simply The Latest Fad Hot Thing, no-one looks any deeper. They just look at brass that looks like it's never been used (so far) and they swoon and whip out the wallet. :Ohhhhhhhh prettyyyyyyyyyy:
              I have explained the damage that caviation does to soft metals to some people, whose response was "just stop the cavitation by adding such-and-such anti-cavitation chemical".
              Ummmmm....... cavitation is how UT cleans,,,,,,,,,, stop THAT and all you have is a heated bucket of soapy water, that you paid $200 for............ that's smart there..................

              We use them at work, for 2 purposes.
              1- large unit for de-carboning generator fields and armatures, things that cannot be disassembled to clean easily. Much more than 15 min. and they start stripping the insulating varnish off. This unit is about a 2-foot cube and holds 4 generators (12 parts).
              2- small unit for removing penetrant (NDT inspection oil) from the very tiny flaws in stainless steel test panels. They don't hurt the stainless at all, steels are fine, too hard, so they work great for things like trigger mechanisms every decade or so.

              Comment


              • #22
                A Hornady ultrasonic cleaner is the only thing I use on my brass. NO tumbling, because I want the brass clean, NOT shiny. I decap with a die which has a carbide insert, so no worries about wear there. Then I ultrasonically clean, using the Hornady One-Shot concentrate, liberally diluted. Then I move on to the rest of the reloading steps.
                just the facts, ma\'am

                Comment


                • #23
                  Damannoyed,
                  Well if that's the case I guess I'll just go back to the dip in the bucket & swish system I use to use. It will take less time anyway.
                  Thanks

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I use a somewhat controversial method to get my cases squeaky clean AND shiny as new. I soak them for 24 hrs in distilled water with RCBS case cleaning solution. Then drain and put cases into a cloth sack. I use a zip tie to close it up and then throw it into the front loader with some Tide and dirty rags from the garage. I run an extended cycle and then pull out the sack. Put a bit more Tide in and run the rags a second time to clean any leftovers from both the rags and the machine itself. Then I dry them in front of the heat register in cold weather or out in the sun in summer time. The cases are as clean as can be and didn't cost a pile of money for a rotary wet tumbler with pins or sonic cleaner.
                    Try it. It really does work. I've taken some of the grungiest filthiest range brass and after my method it looks like it was just made yesterday.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Relative to rifle cases, if you wash before depriming/resizing you need to lube the cases. I find it helps to also lube the neck of cases so the plug comes out easier. Don’t you have to wash again to remove the lube? The powder will stick to the lube if you don’t.
                      The ladder of success is best climbed by stepping on the rungs of opportunity.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I decap my own brass with the sizing die, I was curious about this topic on another forum and I found info that the powder residue can help lube the brass from damaging my dies. As for range police brass I use a universal decapping die to decap, then clean before resizing.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Ragnar View Post
                          Relative to rifle cases, if you wash before depriming/resizing you need to lube the cases. I find it helps to also lube the neck of cases so the plug comes out easier. Don’t you have to wash again to remove the lube? The powder will stick to the lube if you don’t.
                          As long as you are not getting lube inside the neck, all you need to do is wipe it with a rag. A dry rag works fine with Imperial. A damp rag is good with RCBS Lube 2.

                          I have gone through periods of not cleaning after sizing. I am currently in the clean before and after cycle using an ultrasonic (as DA cringes . If I have a 'ooops' moment and something needs to go back in the sizing die I just wipe it down after. The only reason I am double cleaning is because I have found neck tension to be more repeatable when I do. It is not a bright and shiny thing.
                          Friends don't let friends shoot factory ammo.

                          Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.
                          -Winston Churchill

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Coldbore View Post
                            I decap my own brass with the sizing die, I was curious about this topic on another forum and I found info that the powder residue can help lube the brass from damaging my dies. As for range police brass I use a universal decapping die to decap, then clean before resizing.
                            I believe that carbon as a lube is a myth.. Carbon is fairly abrasive and really makes the expander button drag when trying to extract the cases from the sizing dies ( at least with mine) I like to take a bore brush and run in and out a couple times to brush it out. I use a decapping die on an old partner press to keep the rock chucker clean.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Savageluvr View Post

                              I believe that carbon as a lube is a myth.. Carbon is fairly abrasive and really makes the expander button drag when trying to extract the cases from the sizing dies ( at least with mine) I like to take a bore brush and run in and out a couple times to brush it out. I use a decapping die on an old partner press to keep the rock chucker clean.
                              According to my K&M Force Pack, it is not a myth for seating pressure. It is good for at least 0.001 variance in bushing size depending on the bullet diameter. I have had as much as 30 psi variance with carbon (as in the still powdery/can turn a q-tip black) vs. a neck cleaned in a UT and then brushed.

                              I don't use an expander ball. Just a bushing.
                              Friends don't let friends shoot factory ammo.

                              Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.
                              -Winston Churchill

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by golong View Post

                                According to my K&M Force Pack, it is not a myth for seating pressure. It is good for at least 0.001 variance in bushing size depending on the bullet diameter. I have had as much as 30 psi variance with carbon (as in the still powdery/can turn a q-tip black) vs. a neck cleaned in a UT and then brushed.

                                I don't use an expander ball. Just a bushing.
                                Yes, but that has nothing at all to do with carbon having any lubrication qualities. I believe the variance is due to carbon buildup occupying space within the inside walls of the neck forcing the bullet to fight harder to squeeze in. Carbon builds to varying degrees from case to case and the brushing evens it all out, thus evening seating pressures. I still contend that carbon is hard and abrasive. After all, aren't diamonds formed from carbon and pressure? One could actually say that that ultra hard to remove carbon ring that forms just in front of the chamber is a diamond ring in the making.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X