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  • #16
    Honey I'll be down in a minute .... Just have 20 more cartridges to print. ........... Nope it don't sound right. They can keep that stuff together with man buns and saggy pants.
    The H in ENGINEERING stands for Happiness

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    • #17
      One has to wonder how much polymer will be adhering to the chamber wall after the 2nd or 3rd mag dump. While there are polymers that will take a goodly amount of heat, to my knowledge no polymer comes close to the level of heat brass will hold up to.

      GC
      "To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes, the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical."

      'Thomas Jefferson'

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      • #18
        I believe for the fraction of a second in a chamber, many polymers will never get too hot, no matter how hot the chamber gets puking where it eats
        The quest is on, now that the dummies at pentagon decided 6.8, for a short barreled rifle will get out to 600 yards and still defeat current protective vests....
        That weapon WILL be heavier IMO...physical fact of the specs demanded....
        There is no useful caseless ammo that we know of yet...but it will come
        I suspect the sheer volume of all ammo in the future for all NATO, US forces, all foreign military sales, civilian markets around the globe.... perhaps trillions of rounds fairly fast

        Well I see it this way. My Dad Commanded the Twin Cities Army Ammo plant producing 1.2 million 5.56 every 2 weeks during the Nam..... so 2.4M a month from just one plant
        the primer were sourced by the TON
        the powder was sourced by the train car load
        The raw brass was drawn and formed from cups in the plant...as a 14 year old kid visiting (also my dad's reloading helper) I was fascinated by the multitud machines that went into taking thal little brass cup and extruding it to a cartridge case thousands at a time. But seems to me in 1969 he told me about 2 cents per round....at that high cost is what the Army sent him there to fix....the reject rate in 1968 was unacceptable...I recall by 70 he had quality control running better and cost got under a penny a shot

        any way...DARPA fusses with soldier combat load issues.......we all know 5 more years and exoskeletons are issued beyond the Joes....grin
        Logistics and procurement has some impact on the soldier load--- BUT some deference is to cost, transport, and storage...

        In my career I suspect a lot of crap they gave me was low bidder shit....and if any one want to compare some of today's field gear to 1960-1980 stuff...you know I am correct
        Last edited by Fredvon4; 4 weeks ago.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Fredvon4 View Post
          I believe for the fraction of a second in a chamber, many polymers will never get too hot, no matter how hot the chamber gets puking where it eats
          Fred,

          Quite so but I was thinking more along the lines of when there was a break in the action and that polymer case sits cooking in the action for numbers of minutes while the barrel slowly returns to room temperature.

          GC
          "To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes, the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical."

          'Thomas Jefferson'

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          • #20
            That's something I didn't consider GC. No good to have to be out of battery for any amount of time during heat of battle.
            The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.
            Welcome to Tennessee, the patron state of shootin' stuff.

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            • #21
              My issue is that they've sure done a lot of advertising and whatnot, but I've seen zero product anywhere any time. Lots of "Look at our stuff that's coming soon" and flashy info. Brag all they want, but it's all just hot air until the general public can get at it and give it a real-world review.
              ...keep your stick on the ice.

              Mark

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              • #22
                Red face...and I know better because on the range under cease fire we had many M60 machine guns cook off really pissing off the range safety officers/NCOs

                yep poly in hot chamber is going to be a condition to test for

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Damannoyed View Post
                  But, plastic, being left out in the environment, pollution, environmental destruction, nightmare, man-made-glowbull-warming, dogs, cats, living together, real biblical end of the world stuff ........
                  I aint afraid of no ghost...
                  When the hammer drops the BS stops.

                  Don't let them beat you down with their inexperience.

                  You won't know until You Actually try it.

                  The impossible just takes longer.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Fredvon4 View Post
                    Red face...and I know better because on the range under cease fire we had many M60 machine guns cook off really pissing off the range safety officers/NCOs

                    yep poly in hot chamber is going to be a condition to test for
                    There is a serious problem when M60's are cooking rounds off.

                    M-60's, like MOST dedicated machine guns, are Open Bolt fired.
                    They NEVER sit closed with a round in the chamber unless they are sitting there with a bad primered round in the chamber (or a broken firing pin).
                    They strip a round off the belt, ram it home, and just as the bolt locks, the firing pin is slammed into it.
                    On the M-60 the firing pin is not actually powered by a hammer, or a spring of any kind. As the entire bolt and operating rod slam closed (the bolt is attached to the TOP of the op-rod), the op-rod extension (there the bolt attaches) is actually wrapped around, cradling, the firing pin. The entire weight of the op-rod, powered by it's drive spring, drives the firing pin home.
                    At the same time, as the system opens after firing, as the op-rod moves rearward, as it unlocks the bolt it physically drives the firing pin rearward.

                    For those unfamiliar with The Pig:


                    I am a former M-60 gunner, M-249 gunner as well, fired a little M-2HB and Mk-19 Grenade Machine Gun also, never got to shoot the M-240's,, new to my unit as I retired.

                    All of these are Open Bolt weapons, not closed bolt weapons like the M-16.

                    The open bolt design this way does 2 things:
                    1- eliminates Cook-Offs (ammo is in the receiver, not in the chamber)..
                    2- speeds cooling (barrel is open to airflow at both ends).

                    The Thompson SMG and the M3 Greasegun, were also Open Bolt mechanisms.

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                    • #25
                      A lot of those Open Bolt Machine Guns however, if gunners played nice and rifle-like with the triggers, beat up the sears and they would run away. The sear would fail to grab the bottom of the op-rod, it would bounce being rounded off, and would simply run as long as ammo lasted.
                      You either hang on 'till she stops, or you hang on and grab the belt and twist it off.

                      You don't rifle squeeze MG triggers, you snatch them fully back, all in one grab, and you drop them the same way.
                      Almost like slapping a shotgun trigger, except the slap you then hold hard for 6-9 rounds, then you drop it equally hard.
                      The complete polar opposite of standard "trigger control".

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