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  • .350 Legend?

    I stumbled across the fact that Winchester came out with a new cartridge for AR15 style rifles. The .355 caliber cartridge has a rebated .223 sized rim and is identical to the .223 in length. It is basically a blown out .223 case with a bit larger base. Its main appeal seems to be that it can be used in the AR15 and meets the straight walled case requirements of deer regulations in some formerly shotgun only states. Winchesters introductory literature makes it look like the super hero of cartridges but it apparently has some downside issues, In taking a look at its reception around the industry I came across an article by Chuck Hawks that is unusual for gun writing in general. The article really brings out some well considered criticism of Winchesters introductory rhetoric. I'd like to hear others opinions on the round and Chucks article. https://www.chuckhawks.com/win_350_legend.html
    Every once in a while in life we need a policeman, a lawyer, a doctor and a preacher. We need a farmer three times a day, every day.

    Et Canis Manducare Canis Mundi

  • #2
    I didn't read Hawk's article, yet. A couple of years back I was camping in AZ along with a Ruger exec. I had my 30 M1 carbine with me and chatted with him about an idea I had for a new cartridge. It would be a straightwalled, .357 cartridge of the length of a 357 Maximum but RIMLESS and designed to work in a compact version of the ranch rifle. I called it the "357 Ruger Patrol." Seems similar to this new Winchester round. I bet I was one of the umpty-dozen folks with a similar idea.
    Homo sapiens, [ˈhōmō ˈsāpēənz] Noun. An advanced primate characterized by a large brain which it seldom uses.

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    • #3
      Didn't someone on here, do .358 in 223 case wildcat, couple years ago?
      Columbia Falls, MT
      If we don’t speak out against the infringements of today, it will weaken our ability to stop the next infringements.
      Since it took 26th Amendment to change voting age, expanding rights under 14th Amendment. Why doesn't same requirement, to restrict rights, extend to 2nd Amendment?


      NRA Benefactor Life, NRA Ring of Freedom, NRA-ILA Partner in Freedom, GOA Patriot, SAF, Oath Keepers

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      • #4
        I've been loading the ancient 351 WSL for several years now, using cut down 223 cases. Excapt for bullet diameter ( 351 vs 357) and velocity (maybe 300 fps), not much difference between them I can see.
        "The fact that guns can kill another human being is the whole point. That\'s why they are so darn good at deterring violent criminals". Ann Coulter

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        • #5
          Originally posted by RobertMT View Post
          Didn't someone on here, do .358 in 223 case wildcat, couple years ago?
          Robert, I trimmed a couple .223 cases down a short while ago, to see if the .357 Max AR was doable. The cases first went through a Lee .300 Ham'r die, than I expanded the neck with a 9mm die. It might be OK using the .223 parent and creating a rebated rim case. But it sure looks strange.
          Experience is what you get, when you don\'t get what you want ;-)

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          • #6
            300FPS is a LOT of difference seems to me.
            Homo sapiens, [ˈhōmō ˈsāpēənz] Noun. An advanced primate characterized by a large brain which it seldom uses.

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            • #7
              My loads are on the conservative side, about 1800 FPS with a 185 grain cast bullet. Lyman cast bullet manual show a top end load of 2020 FPS with a 180 grain bullet. Ruger lists the 180 grain SP at 2100 FPS. I'm not going to buy a new rifle and cartridge for 80 FPS.
              "The fact that guns can kill another human being is the whole point. That\'s why they are so darn good at deterring violent criminals". Ann Coulter

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              • #8
                Its just another re invention of the wheel ( with a small flat ) that no one really needs. With all the choices we have as far as cartridges go, why would one limit oneself to that one ??
                The H in ENGINEERING stands for Happiness

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                • #9
                  I completely agree with Scuba1 comment. The only reason i could see for someone to need one is for the few states that requires a straight wall case centerfire rifle. Va aint one of em so ...... Ill save the space in the safe for something else

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                  • #10
                    Well for those states there is always the 450 Bushmaster ...... way more horsepower for hunting applications.
                    The H in ENGINEERING stands for Happiness

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                    • #11
                      Like all government regulations, I'm sure these were well thought out and nobody had a cat in the fight. What is really telling, 450bushmaster meets the requirement and 458socom doesn't.
                      Columbia Falls, MT
                      If we don’t speak out against the infringements of today, it will weaken our ability to stop the next infringements.
                      Since it took 26th Amendment to change voting age, expanding rights under 14th Amendment. Why doesn't same requirement, to restrict rights, extend to 2nd Amendment?


                      NRA Benefactor Life, NRA Ring of Freedom, NRA-ILA Partner in Freedom, GOA Patriot, SAF, Oath Keepers

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RobertMT View Post
                        Like all government regulations, I'm sure these were well thought out and nobody had a cat in the fight.
                        I'll bet you're right
                        Experience is what you get, when you don\'t get what you want ;-)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TMan51 View Post

                          I'll bet you're right
                          In this case probably more thought went into it than you'd think. I think straight wall is used for lack of any better way to divide metallic cartridges into the 'safe' and 'unsafe' ones. I mean if you are going to draw a line, you have to draw it somehow and somewhere.

                          Of course, whether an '06 is really more dangerous than a .450 or a shotgun slug for that matter is a matter of debate. But after being stuck with a slug gun for decades, I know people in Ohio and S Michigan are pretty happy with some progress. Fact is, they aren't letting us use an '06 anytime soon no matter what gets said about it. So better than nothing.

                          As far as the .350, yeah way less than the wonder cartridge the marketing hype will try and tell you. Unless of course I can down a deer with their marketing hype in which case I'm gonna be something great.

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                          • #14
                            So I guess in those states its fine to wander around the woods with a 700 Nitro Express ..... because ...... straight walled
                            The H in ENGINEERING stands for Happiness

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Scuba1 View Post
                              So I guess in those states its fine to wander around the woods with a 700 Nitro Express ..... because ...... straight walled
                              Well since lawmakers seem to associate danger with high velocity it would make sense.

                              However, S. Michigan places additional dimensional constraints on the cartridge. Ohio has an approved list which includes 45-70. I guess with an approved list maybe they can get 30-30 on there...

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